I'm not sure where to post this, but I had trouble finding out if Klaus Badelt uses a real orchestra or not in Pirates of the Caribbean. At times it sounds very realistic, but then again, there is always VSL at hand [:)]. Anyone have an answer?
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Pirates of the Caribbean, real vs. unreal
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May I complain about that score for a moment? It was competent enough, especially in the action scenes, but those moments when the score should have taken off melodically -- big landscape shots with no dialogue -- nothing! Wet toast! The last thing a pirate score should be is forgettable. Where's Korngold when you need him? (I know, he's not available.)
JD
PS - Real orchestra, definately. Films with $120 million budgets can afford a few live sessions.
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>PS - Real orchestra, definately. Films with $120 million budgets can afford a few live sessions.
Real orchestra, spiced up with samples, definitely. Especially percussion. Films with $120 million budgets need to top other films which also can afford an orchestra [:P]
Christian
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Uh, 120 for the entire movie, not for the music alone, i reckon. [[:|]]
Christian
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@dackl said:
The last thing a pirate score should be is forgettable. Where's Korngold when you need him? (I know, he's not available.).
wow, I walk around all day humming the themes, I deffinitly wouldn't classify any of the musical content as forgetable. In fact I would say the score is one of the main reasons I was so enveloped in the film.
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Then you'll be glad to hear that you can enjoy one of the themes 1:1 in Black Hawk Down, which Zimmer scored... [:D]
Seriously, i admit i like the score though it's a bit simplistic at times. But who of us is to judge the quality of a composers work when none of us sat there in the lunacy of writing and recording sessions which led to a particular score.
Christian
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Did a little poking around on the web and found out some interesting things:
1. Alan Silvestri was set to score the film and was replaced a few weeks before opening. (Not uncommon practice in Hollywood). In my opinion, he would have done a lustier and better job.
2. Credits have "additional music by" nine composers. Ramin Djawidi, Jim Dooley, Nick Glennie-Smith, Steve Jablonsky, Blake Neely, James McKee Smith and Geoff Zanelli. Score is credited as "overproduced" by Hans Zimmer (love those credit jokes).
3. Orchestra was the The Hollywood Studio Symphony Orchestra.
4. Zimmer is set to score the two sequels being shot at the same time, the next - Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest - releases on July 7, 2006.
There: more than you ever wanted to know!
JD
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Sorry. Two corrections to the above:
That list of additional composers in only seven names. Add Zimmer and Badelt to get to nine.
The budget was $125 million. (World-wide box office gross was $653 million). If you figure that the music budget is around 3% of the whole film budget, then the music budget was around $3.75 million.
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1. Alan Silvestri was set to score the film and was replaced a few weeks before opening. (Not uncommon practice in Hollywood). In my opinion, he would have done a lustier and better job.
2. Credits have "additional music by" nine composers. Ramin Djawidi, Jim Dooley, Nick Glennie-Smith, Steve Jablonsky, Blake Neely, James McKee Smith and Geoff Zanelli. Score is credited as "overproduced" by Hans Zimmer (love those credit jokes).
3. Orchestra was the The Hollywood Studio Symphony Orchestra.
1--Silvestri's score was thrown out by Jerry 'stick by the rules I've invented' Bruckheimer because it sounded to old fashionedly parate-like. He just wants his usual simplistic Zimmer chords. (In most of his films, it works pretty good, but creatively it's just boring)
2--At least Zimmer is a honest guy, pretty humble and realistic. But that whole MediaVentures thing got out of hand. I feel their music (even now with Zimmer out of MV) is nothing more than production music, specifically arranged for each film.
3--Jut to make sure: the orchestra is a pick-up ensemble, much like various symphony orchestra's nowadays...
The film itself was one of the best and most entertaining Bruckheimer efforts since long... but the music! ...
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I'm struggling to believe that there are people here who are hearing much realistic instrumentation/recording on the CD at all...!
for me:
a. The 'Fiddle' motifs are generally good - real sounding, so must be real. (I don't think MV had VSL at the time - and their own solo samples are 10 years old)
b. The scalic action 'hits' (piccolo heavy) sound very synthetic, or weakly mixed
c. I'm hearing soooo much 'spicing up' of the orchestral recording that the original has become lost in the mix [:(]
I have a feeling that a few real players were brought in to sweeten the sampled demo material, rather than pay a whole orchestra to play open chords and old melodies (The Rock, Crimson Tide, Gladiator etc).
Sorry if that's inaccurate or harsh - but that's how it comes across to me on the CD recording. It's a shame, as Alan Silvestri breathed much needed life into Van Helsing and Tomb Raider 2 - the scores are stunning - and have plenty of hidden electronica to 'phatten' them up.
just my 2c...
Peter
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I have talked with an orchestrator of that and other media ventures pieces. Heres what he had to say. He says that if you don't exactly copy what their mock ups are to the orchestra they get pissed because the overlay nearly everything with synths. By the way the trailer for the film is all synth.
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Can anyone talk about Pirate scores without mentioning John Debney's Cutthroat Island? Sure, it's a tribute to Korngold, but it's huge and complex, and superior to Pirates of the Carribean in every way
~Chris
P.S. Pirates score had Badelt's name on the front cover, but I maintain that it was composed by a committee working on a tight schedule. I think that's the reason it's a bit lackluster.
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P Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on