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Dimension Strings in MIR Pro
Last post Tue, Apr 16 2019 by Dewdman42, 8 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Apr 07 2019 18:49
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 207

Hi,

I'm using Dimension Strings in MIR Pro, but I don't know if I should use the Mono (to Stereo) or the Stereo (to Stereo) version of the plugin. Maybe it's imagination, but there is quite a difference in the sound.

So what is the right choice for the plugin, when ...
1) ... using all players in one VI Pro instance: mono? stereo?
2) ... using each player in separate VI Pro instances: mono? stero?

Also, I'm not sure how to properly bring the players on the stage, e.g. the eight violins. With all players in one VI Pro instance they sound more as an ensemble. But when loading the players in single instances, they sound more separated, which I don't want. How can I “glue“ them together? And how do I make them less close-miced (less harsh)?

I think there are answers in the forum, but I couldn't find them. I'm really new to the game with Dimension Strings. They are awesome!!! Would be great if there were (more) tutorials on these. These samples deserve it!

Posted on Sun, Apr 07 2019 19:04
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7280

For individual "Players" in the Dimension series use mono in, stereo out *), MIR Icon width set to 0. For everything else (2 or 4 Players, or a complete Dimension ensemble, like all Dimension Violins) use stereo in, stereo out *), width set to an appropriate value on stage.

*) ... or any other output format of your choice

BTW: For five selected Venues there are ready-made settings avialable for all Dimension Instruments, as soon as you switch MIR into "MIRx Mode" (for more info see this announcement).

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 08:06
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 207

Thanks, Dietz. I will give the presets a try.


I have a question regarding the wet/dry relationship. I know there is a very long thread about this, but I couldn't find an answer. I wonder why the default gloabal setting is 50%. If I want an instrument to sound like it was recorded in Teldex, why shouldn't I push the slider to 100%? For me, it's not logical to let the direct signal pass through.

Doesn't it make sense to set it to 100% for close microphones, in particular? The brass instruments (not dimension!) sound better with this, in my opinion.


The following two settings sound similar, but is this true? What's the difference?

1) Instrument: 20% dry/wet  <-->  Global: 100% dry/wet
2) Instrument: 100% dry/wet  <-->  Global: -80% dry/wet


Many, many thanks in advance.

Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 14:35
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5390

I have been just using double clicking the default stereo MIR assignment for Dimension Strings which has the icon width at 0 when the instrument profile is automatically assigned.  So I didn't make any changes with in/out. 

This is not actually correct?  So I should be changing it to mono in and leaving the stereo output the same?  I guess because there is no need for the stereo input so you are wasting CPU on those stereo in channels?   

  

Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 18:58
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 363

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

Thanks, Dietz. I will give the presets a try.


I have a question regarding the wet/dry relationship. I know there is a very long thread about this, but I couldn't find an answer. I wonder why the default gloabal setting is 50%. If I want an instrument to sound like it was recorded in Teldex, why shouldn't I push the slider to 100%? For me, it's not logical to let the direct signal pass through.

Doesn't it make sense to set it to 100% for close microphones, in particular? The brass instruments (not dimension!) sound better with this, in my opinion.


The following two settings sound similar, but is this true? What's the difference?

1) Instrument: 20% dry/wet  <-->  Global: 100% dry/wet
2) Instrument: 100% dry/wet  <-->  Global: -80% dry/wet


Many, many thanks in advance.

 

Simple answer is that the wet/dry slider is not a simple mixing of "bone dry" with wet like you would think of when you're using a typical wet/dry slider in most other FX plugins.  

The DRY componet doesn't have any reverb in it, including early reflections, but still does have many other aspects of location of the instrument on the stage...  The panning, the width, some EQ related to distance from the main mic, the directivity of the player, etc..  This is the dry component of MIR.  So you do need it there..  If you were sitting in the room you would hear the direct sound of the instrument hitting your ears and you would hear the sound after it bounced off the walls, both early and late reflections.  MIR gives you both, the direct part of it is in the DRY signal, the reflected part is in the WET.    In theory, 50% should be kind of like normal, but you can certainly play with the slider to make it sound a little drier or wetter, if it sounds good that's what matters.  

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 19:02
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 363

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

I have been just using double clicking the default stereo MIR assignment for Dimension Strings which has the icon width at 0 when the instrument profile is automatically assigned.  So I didn't make any changes with in/out. 

This is not actually correct?  So I should be changing it to mono in and leaving the stereo output the same?  I guess because there is no need for the stereo input so you are wasting CPU on those stereo in channels?   

I would like to hear from Dietz on this also, but I'm inclined to say that you still want stereo because the dry part of each player has panning and width information that contributes to the DRY signal.  I'm not sure that width is part of the instrument preset that automatically loads into MIR for dimension strings.  You still have to assign the location on the stage and the width of it, through the icon..not the preset.  The preset I think effects the "character", aspect which is more about EQ.  You end up saving the stage placement information in a VEP project...or in your DAW project...it doens't save/load that info through MIR itself.  

I could be wrong and if so I'm confident Dietz will correct me.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 20:45
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 207

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post
If you were sitting in the room you would hear the direct sound of the instrument hitting your ears and you would hear the sound after it bounced off the walls, both early and late reflections.  MIR gives you both, the direct part of it is in the DRY signal, the reflected part is in the WET.

Thanks.

I understand the dry/wet relation, but the dry signal is the Silent Stage recording. So you're mixing this signal with Teldex, but you will never get a 100% imitation as if the instrument was recorded there instead of the Silent Stage? So that you have both a dry Teldex and a wet Teldex sound of the instrument. Does this make sense? That's the reason I was thinking to put the slider to 100% wet.

Sorry I've very few experience with ERs and reverb, that's the reason I bought MIR Pro. Maybe I'm making it too difficult ...  I'm missing something that helps me understand it.

Posted on Tue, Apr 16 2019 03:36
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 363
Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post
If you were sitting in the room you would hear the direct sound of the instrument hitting your ears and you would hear the sound after it bounced off the walls, both early and late reflections. MIR givesyou both, the direct part of it is in the DRY signal, the reflected part is in the WET.

Thanks. I understand the dry/wet relation,but the drysignal is the Silent Stage recording.So you're mixing this signal with Teldex, but you willneverget a 100% imitation as if the instrumentwas recorded there instead of the Silent Stage? So that you have both a dry Teldex and a wet Teldex sound of the instrument.Does this make sense? That's the reason I was thinking to put the slider to 100% wet.Sorry I'vevery fewexperience with ERs and reverb, that's the reason I bought MIR Pro. Maybe I'm making it too difficult ...I'm missing somethingthat helps me understand it.


No the dry signal in mir Pro is NOT the pure recording from silent stage. That is what comes out of VIPro, but once it enters Mirpro, then that silent stage signal ceases to exist. Mirpro uses ambisonic information of the room to take that silent stage sound and effect the sound as if it’s placed on stage at some location. The room sound has direct components and reflected components. VSL painstakingly separated the direct component from the reflected components out of that ambisonic room encoding, and this slider is what you use to adjust how they are mixed back together.

More or less....

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
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