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Last post Thu, Jan 16 2020 by Paul, 49 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Dec 05 2019 23:35
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

Hi,

I have VI SE (1,2,3, and 4), where do i go from here if i want to buy more libraries,

I also have MIR pro with all the rooms, and Vienna Suite pro 

I want to be careful how to spend my money, any guideness will be helpful.

I'm sure VI libraries are outstanding but to be fair i need to listen to others, that is why i wonder how to spend my money as everything beyond VI SE  is quite expensive.

Thanks

-John

Posted on Thu, Dec 05 2019 23:54
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12194

Hi John, 

If you want to add more instruments, sticking to the Special Editions is a good idea. 

I have made a few walkthrough videos for the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions Vol 5-7, the content is identical with the VI versions. 

If you want to get more articulations for the instruments you already have in your Special Editions, please tell us more about the direction you want to go. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Dec 06 2019 05:03
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

Dear Paul,

so i'm back to the: is it the chicken or the egg thing. wet or dry sound?

I'm new to VSL but not new to sound libraries, I'm not used to work on dry sounds, not sure who else provides dry sounds, i don't want to undermine lots of professionals that they can do maigic with dry sound, so i was told to go with SE and through VI, so then i had to spend money to buy Vienna suite pro (sound processing) and vienna MIRpro .. then i found out that i really need to learn more .. so i started 7 months training on VI, i pushed myself to learn about the following, which i'm not custom to:

dry sound, shaping, then accousitc (reverb) then EQ and sound processing panning etc, then MIR room, you know the rest 

that is the only traiing i found.

i don't think i got 40% out of it, the training was not for the pro versions and all the software i had is for PRO,  lots of things out of date, that is okay, i muscled my way through it.

After all fo that, why on earth would i think, i will end up making wet sound better than (you guys, eat drink sleep making sounds) as in Synchron?

give you an example, so use EQ to remove some frequencies which you had it naturally in your sound libraries which at the end makes the sound unatrual, i'm giving you a credit .. your recording sounds in a marvelous way, that i would rather not touch, i'm sure some expert with long experience would after all agree with me.

I'm a piano player and i found myself i spent so much time shaping and EQuing and not getting the results i want than composing and palying songs also there are not enough information of how to utilize MIR pro.

now i see you are inviing me to buy Synchron .. what do i do? i'm not sure ..so all VI instrument player setting and configuration that i learned which is old and hard to navigate was waste of time.

if i go with Synchron direction, do i need Vienna Suite pro anymre? do i need MiRpro anymore?

last thing why do i buy SE synchronized and not go straight to Synchronized series?

if i would have a chance to do it again, i will just buy the synchron seiries and focus on one thing

i'm sorry but i'm so overwelmed with the options and instead of focusing building music .. just buying and keep learing how to use the software, so sure please give me your opinion. 

-John

Posted on Fri, Dec 06 2019 06:05
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12194

Hi jshamon, 

It has also been a long journey for us, and I know where you are coming from!

Here's an idea: Get the crossgrade to the SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition Volume 1 (47 EUR).

=> You will get 3 additional instruments ( Concert D-274 Light, Solo Violin 1 and Solo Cello 2), and you can see for yourself how you like the Synchron Player. 

You will not need MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro for the SYNCHRON-ized products, but those will still be great tools to integrate other samples and of course also other audio signals (voice, live recordings) with your arragements (I see you have the Synchron Stage RoomPack as well). 

Give it a try and tell me what you think!

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Dec 06 2019 18:06
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5514

If you have VI and MIR you need no training at all beyond this:  

1 Load instrument (s) with MIR auto on.  

2 Select MIR venue. 

3 Dial overall hall wet/dry a little down.  If it's a bass, low or perhaps percussive  instrument, dial its individual dry/wet down a little to make it sound clearer.

BAM.  You have a mix.  MIR does just about everything else for you. 

This is how I did almost every official demo you hear of mine on this site.  (Uh-oh. I probably shouldn't admit that.)

Posted on Fri, Dec 06 2019 18:18
by mschmitt
Joined on Mon, Jan 01 2007, Posts 149

Have your tried the "MIRx Mode" in MIR? That will give you preconfigured reverb, eq, etc... for every instrument.

IMO MIR Pro and Vienna Suite are very powerful tools, but they maybe a bit of overkill for someone that is just getting started and is working only with VSL libraries. I'd recommend you spend some time just with MIRx mode and ignore Vienna Suite for now, to see if you can get the sound you are happy with.

When it comes to buying new sample libaries, I only purchase new ones once I realize I've outgrown the library I'm using. For example, I was using the SE orchestral strings a lot and eventually needed more articulations and samples so that is when I upgraded to the full version. My philosophy of only buying hardware and software once I've outgrown what I currently have, and know exactly what additional features I need and will use, has saved me a considerable amount of money over the years.

Also, if you are thinking about buying more VSL products, check out this months deal on Vienna Vouchers.

All the best,

Michael

Full Cube and lots of other stuff
Posted on Fri, Dec 06 2019 19:07
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

Hi William

Thanks for your reply,

can you elaborate a little more, if i'm using Vienna Ensemble pro, and load a MIR as an input, how do i get that auto?

i think you meant, upload an instrument with MIR pro on in the Vienna instrument player?

i can only see the rooms in Vienna Ensembles

-John

Posted on Fri, Dec 06 2019 23:42
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5514

Well at the top toolbar of Vienna Ensemble Pro  are two icons MIR and MIRx - if MIR is red it means it is auto (or you can click on it and it will be).  You then load a VI Pro from the lower left. It will automatically be set up with MIR.  

Then you will either see the MIR space, or if not press f6.  There you can select the venu and the instrument is there in it.  If you look at the upper right you'll see that VI selected the correct settings for the instrument automatically.  You can also select "character" a little below which has EQs designed for that particular instrument.  Below that is the dry/wet for that instrument alone which you can adjust.    That same column if you scroll down has the overall dry/wet offset which is important because it allows you to clarify the sound  of the whole venue with dry signal.  So you just move that instrument wherever you want it.  Also make it bigger or smaller by dragging its handles. 

Posted on Mon, Dec 09 2019 05:00
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

cool William, all good now

For the rest, as i understood from you and trying myself, the right colume (wet/dry) doesn't go for each set of instrument, also i tried it myself, so basically ..the instruemtns sets per venue, adjust: the size, mic, orientation/direction, position.. what else?

Also how do i get a clear sound, it always sounds muffled, like i'm running the sounds in a bathroom, i know that is the reverb, but no matter what i try it is not clear/crisp/vivid .. your thoughts?

I have created my first song :-)

Thanks a lot William.

-John

Posted on Mon, Dec 09 2019 22:49
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

let me make it even harder

Which is the best .. for example Brass

CineBrass, Spitfire, VSL with MIR?

Posted on Mon, Dec 09 2019 23:50
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 797

Originally Posted by: jshamon Go to Quoted Post
let me make it even harder
Which is the best .. for example Brass
CineBrass, Spitfire, VSL with MIR?

You shold check what the URL in your browser says...

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Dec 10 2019 00:56
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

Dear Ben

I'm a big fan or VSL, that is not going to change, you don't have to feel bad about a post, understand the context of what i'm asking from previous posts, you don't need to sell VSL, they are an awesome libraries, sounds, and great work achieving that.

I was trying to see if i can get the wet sound as in other libraries/vendors by using the VSL dry sound using MIRpro.

If all i need is to load an instrument with MIR and adjust wet/dry .. then why wouldn't i just go with the synchron? I'm not doing that much with MIR, am i? and still i'm sure just by doing that, i won't achieve the "out of the box" synchron sound.

-John

Posted on Tue, Dec 10 2019 01:24
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 797

Hi John,

Your post is just a little strange to me... What answer are you expecting to such a question in a VSL forum?

Anyways, regarding your MIR muffled sound issue: There is a room-eq setting, that allows you to set an EQ only for the reverberated part of the sound. Try adding a low-cut / high-pass and set it between 50-150 Hz.

Best, Ben

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Dec 11 2019 02:36
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5514

The great thing about MIR is you can use defaults for almost everything, as VSL put in excellent settings for all the instruments.  Simply using the auto-recognize settings will result in a great sound.  Also, no need to change default mic positions, simply select the venue you want (or the position within a venue with different options)  and it will be good for the mix.  I became a little leery of changing defaults because they are so good to begin with.  Though you should definitely check out the various settings like "Dark" or "Pure" in each instrument as they give a lot of good options.  

Posted on Wed, Dec 11 2019 21:27
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

so i just recorded a simple song out of music sheet using piano sound, then i used up 7 different instruments.

then i added MIR to each one of them but i selected the right venue, man oh man it sounded so good.

then i added MIRacle at the end on the master channel .. oh my .. it is super awesome.

I bet i can do even x10 times better if i just chose the right ariticulations and make some tweaks,

but it is so amzing enough without an efffort.

now my question is, do i have to move the instruments in the venue? so i'm thinking like a real orchestra players positions, so choir all the way to the back, timpany far and to the side, because MIR places them automattically and they sound good as they are but of course in arbitrary strange spots and orientation.

-John

Posted on Wed, Dec 11 2019 21:52
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5514

yes, definitely move them to where you want them on your stage. The nice thing is MIR adjusts all sorts of parameters  while all the user has to do is drag the icon around the stage.  

Posted on Thu, Dec 12 2019 06:40
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 589

Also don't be afraid to move players to "unorthadox" positions, facing strange directions and other things...  It doesn't matter what the stage looks like, only what it sounds like.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, Dec 12 2019 08:39
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 708

MIR makes me feel guilty. After decades trying to use layers of reverb and accurate balancing in the mixer channels to simulate a space, now it is just a matter of moving some icons around and adjusting a few sliders. It makes things look too easy for a professional! I question if this is ethically sustainable!

Paolo

Posted on Thu, Dec 12 2019 12:12
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12194

Very well said! 

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Dec 12 2019 13:32
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5514
Originally Posted by: PaoloT Go to Quoted Post
MIR makes me feel guilty. After decades trying to use layers of reverb and accurate balancing in the mixer channels to simulate a space, now it is just a matter of moving some icons around and adjusting a few sliders. It makes things look too easy for a professional! I question if this is ethically sustainable!
Paolo


That's exactly it. You are almost embarrassed at how little you had to do. But of course the greatest advantage is being able to focus on the music.
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