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The Effect of CC11 when Using Velocity Cross-Fading
Last post Mon, Jan 27 2020 by corte1, 5 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Jan 26 2020 19:44
by corte1
Joined on Sat, Oct 16 2010, Posts 85

Hi Everyone,

I'm coming back to using VSL after a bit of a hiatus and am trying to remember the relationship between expression (CC11) and how the velocity cross-fade works. 

I'm using a legato appasionata violin patch that contains 4 velocity layers and want to use cross-fading. I have set CC28 to it's max value. CC28 turns the cross-fading on. I'm then using CC2 to perfrom the actual velocity cross-fading. It seems to work just fine. As I increase CC2, the violins increase in both volume and intensity. However, I noticed that the CC11 controller for expression still alters the overall volume of the patch.

 I thought that when you activate cross-fade (CC28), expression (CC11) gets automatically deactivated so that any CC11 changes won't have any effect and you just use CC2 to vary the cross-faded volume. Isn't this the way it is supposed to work? I'm confused why the CC11 controller still varies the volume.

Help!!

Corte Swearingen

Posted on Mon, Jan 27 2020 01:14
by plowman
Joined on Sat, Dec 13 2003, Posts 1128

I cannot recall a VE function that side-steps CC 11 in any scenario. To my knowledge, it can only be turned off by the user. 

What you're hearing is not additional crossfade beyond your CC2 control. It's only an increase in amplitude. That's what Expression does -- it just makes it louder or softer. It's a volume control *within* the volume set by other controllers and the natural gain of the sample itself. 

To demonstrate this, you could turn cross fade off, set Dynamic Range to nil (so key velocity does nothing), pick a sharp attack sound like a pizz, and play with CC11. It'll still get softer and louder, but it's the same as twirling the volume knob. 

Posted on Mon, Jan 27 2020 03:12
by John Perry
Joined on Fri, Jun 26 2015, Posts 9

Hi Corte,

The way I understand it is that velocity (instead of expression) is deactivated off when velocity crossfade is activated. 

Best.

-- John

Posted on Mon, Jan 27 2020 10:00
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

I've always used Vel X fade for intensity and dynamics but there always seem to be volume fluctuations between certain articulations with some being extreme. Subsequently, I use the Expression fader to smooth out those differences for seamless transitions.

For example, if you use portatos with legatos the portatos will usually come out louder than the legato so I bump the expression fader down a bit when the portatos play to match the legatos.

Another example is a diminuendo/decrescendo sample at the end of a phrase.  The beginning of the sample is usually much louder than the rest of the phrase causing it to sound unnatural so you bring down the expression fader just before the sample plays.

The opposite is true for a crescendo sample unless after the crescendo you want the phrase to be fortissimo or something.

By the way, What the hell's the difference between diminuendo and decrescendo?


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Mon, Jan 27 2020 13:20
by corte1
Joined on Sat, Oct 16 2010, Posts 85

Got it. This all makes sense. And yes, as John pointed out, it's velocity that is deactivated and not CC11. 

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