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Starting a template in VEP7 for Logic Pro X?
Last post Fri, Apr 03 2020 by Ashermusic, 10 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Mar 31 2020 20:34
by Tyttebaer
Joined on Sun, Mar 11 2018, Posts 5

Hi

Hope you all cope with Corona.

I am new to this forum and to VEP7.

I have a setup with a MacPro 12 core and 32 GB RAM mashine running Logic Pro X and a WIn10 i7 Slave computer with 4 treads and 32GB RAM. 

I want to setup a VEP7 template on the slave mashine with Pianos, Strings, Winds, Brass and Perc etc. for a start and I have read a lot about recommandations for how to manage instances in VEP7, but I haven't actually found the smoking gun yet...

So, should I go for one instrument (with different articulations) per instance => a lot of instances, or

Should I setup multiple instruments within a single instance - could be strings eg. => fever instances

As a bonus, I will supplement with a VEP7 template on the Mac computer aswell, when I reach the limit on the slave - any reccomendations for that is also appreciated.

Good evening from Denmark

Jochim

Posted on Tue, Mar 31 2020 22:46
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 584

There is no consensus on the matter.  Try both ways and see which workflow you like better.  

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Apr 01 2020 09:46
by Tyttebaer
Joined on Sun, Mar 11 2018, Posts 5

Any recommendations from experience will be most appreciated in order to get a quick and steady start :-)

Posted on Wed, Apr 01 2020 11:36
by Stig Christensen
Joined on Fri, Mar 18 2005, Denmark, Posts 136

This is a bit complicated.

You can use the approach that says one instance/instrument. This gives you a lot of instances and can proove to be to much for your PC. On th other hand it's really easy to set-up in Logic and it's easy to understand (!)

If you go with the "old" way you put at lot of instruments in ONE instance, let's say all your woodwind in one instace and routing every instrument (if that's what you want) to it's own output. This can result in a more "clumsy" result in Logic, because you will need to activate the returning channels in the mixer and that can potentially give you a lot of unused channels!

I don't think that the workload on your PC will differ much though, just to say that 32GB ram and 4 treads (cores?) isn't that much, so you will benefit from leraning how to enable/disable VEPro channels FROM Logic, to save power on your PC.

Prepare to spend a lot of time on this!

Musicmind (Mind the Music!)
Mac Pro 6.1 64Gb, PC Slave 64gb, Mac Pro 12 48Gb, MacBookPro, Apollo interface, Universal Audio, Waves 9, NI Komplete 9, VSL, BFD3, Superior, Arturia, Sound Toys, Euphonix MC Mix, Neumann mics, DynAudio, Yamaha + Adam monitors AND Steinway Concert Grand A ;-)
Posted on Wed, Apr 01 2020 12:39
by Tyttebaer
Joined on Sun, Mar 11 2018, Posts 5

Thank you for responses and your time.

I will start out with the one instrument pr. instance option and see where it takes me and how my environment reacts :-)

Posted on Thu, Apr 02 2020 18:19
by plowman
Joined on Sat, Dec 13 2003, Posts 1092

There is indeed no consensus.

That being understood, I agree with Stig. The one element that supersedes all else is a clear head. That's best achieved by the reasonable exclusion of complicating factors. When you have to trouble-shoot (and most likely, that will be your learning curve and not VSL issues), the simpler your set-up, the better.

To have one instance say Violins and the next Cellos helps. Digging about one instance to find either, their channels and then the right key switch, are steps you don't need right now.  One instrument per instance is the shortest distance between understanding what you have and making music. 

In fact, within those instances, I'd keep the channel and articulation counts reasonably low. And if you're completely new to VSL, building a small VI Pro stand-alone would simplify things even more. 

Nice helpful people here. Don't be afraid to ask. And the videos are indispensable. 

Cheers to Denmark. 

Posted on Thu, Apr 02 2020 18:58
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 584

So recognizing first there is no consensus on the best approach, I will just share my point of view, which is frankly changing day by day.  All comments below are merely my own opinion.

  1. VePro server has better performance with either a single instance or many instances, but not in-between.  The reason is because of the way you can configure the number of threads per instance.  If you have a single instance, then you can configure it to use more threads and that one instance will manage all the threads in the best way possible.  When you have multiple instances, under the covers those are basically seperate running instances...and whatever thread-count you configure, will apply to each instance individually.  So if you have, for example, 5 instances on a 12 core machine.  Then you might have to set the thread count parameter to 1/5 of the value you would use for a single-instance scenario.  However, in actual practice, not all 5 instances will always be active at once, which means VePro would be underlutilizing threads in each of those instances when not all instances are being used.  Hope that makes sense.  However if you have, say 100 instances and the thread parameter is set to 1 or 2...then it becomes kind of a moot point.  Each intance will use 1-2 threads, but each seperate instance will be getting its thread allocated more from the operating system instead of VePro's built in thread-allocation strategies.  I think that is preferable to the 5-instance method.  But the very best performance will likely be acheived with one single VePro instance, with a larger thread count configuraiton and allow VePro to manage the threads intelligently.  But at the end of the day, I think the work flow considerations are more important, 

  2. I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out ways to use larger single instance with LogicPro.  None of the solutions are perfect.  Its possible still as long as you don't need midi sync for example.  And all of what I stated above applies.  What I like about larger instances is that I can mix it in VePro, which I consider an advantage.  I use MirPro, all inside VePro, where it has handled better with built in features.  I like that I can have a common orchestra mix all setup and ready to use in any project, already to start sequencing and no mixing needed in LogicPro whatsoever.  I just bring stems over occasionally or whatever.  Go to a new cue, and my orchestra is there waiting, premixed with the same mix settings every time in VePro.  

  3. That being said, There can be advantages to mixing the whole thing in Logicpro instead of VePro too.

  4. One disadvantage of instance-per-instrument, is that means you will have 100+ VePro plugins in your LogicPro project (instead of just one) and if they are unconnected, then you have to go into them all and hit the connect button.  Things like that.  It also increases CPU requirements on LogicPro.  When you use a single instance, LogicPro will be using barely any CPU, leaving it all free for VePro.

  5. I personally don't like scanning through 100 VePro instances looking for stuff with the many-instance approach.  I like having it all in one VePro mixer and in some ways its missing some of the VePro advantage to not have many instruments in the VePro mixer.   At that point its probably not much point in even using VePro at all, EXCEPT for if you are running VePro on a seperate slave machine, then obviously that is gaining that advantage, regardless of whether its one large instance or many instances.  But if you're running VePro locally on the same machine as LogicPro..then there starts to be very little advantage to even using it at all...just adds complication with little return.

  6. instance-per-instrument has some other workflow advantages..  For one thing, its momumentally more simple at the LogicPro end.  No need for fancy AU3 templates or anything like that.  Just create your tracks on demand.  Also, articulation management with articulation sets, and particularly when you are using Scripter in any way, is monumentally easier if you use one instance-per-instrument.  Scripter, for example, has to funnel all the midi tracks/channels that are heading to a VePro instance, through one Scripter script.  So if you use one large Vepro instance with 100 instruments in it, all scripting for that instance has to be handled in one single Scripter script...which is doable, but extremely complicated and most third party solutions do not really handle that very well either IMHO.  If you use one-instrument-per-instance, then each track can have its own simple little Scripter script and its pretty easy to do various kinds of articulation related duties one instrument at a time that way.

That's all I can think of at the moment...

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, Apr 02 2020 21:06
by Tyttebaer
Joined on Sun, Mar 11 2018, Posts 5
I am impressed with your knowledge and generous willing to help - thank you all :-)

I know I have to take my own path, but I will be heading out to the one instrument per instance and see where it takes me.

Btw I am planning to use CineSamples as the core library, and today they have just announced 75% discount on a comprehensive package with most of what you need to get started. I am by no means affiliated - so just for information.

Regards
Jochim
Posted on Fri, Apr 03 2020 11:54
by Stig Christensen
Joined on Fri, Mar 18 2005, Denmark, Posts 136

As Dewdman42 is saying you must consider HOW many instruments you are going to use at the SAME time.
I have a string slave, a PC, with 5 major string libraries all deactivated, and it's obvious, that I will not be using all 5 libraries at the same time.
Most of the time I will be using one string library and maybe 5 channels from other libraries to alter the sound.
In the creative fase it's very important that I can turn on the channels/instruments I want AND turn them off if I don't need them, and although you can turn off a channel in LPX (option click the on/off button), you will have to turn the channel off in VEPro 7 in another way. Using automation - a MIDI controller, I use CC101, - to turn off the channels you no longer needs.
Doing these kind of household things when trying to be creative IS the downside of the trade. And everyone will tell you NOT to do it at the same time, but thats difficult!
Handling used/unused instruments is very much easier if running all instruments inside Logic! 

Musicmind (Mind the Music!)
Mac Pro 6.1 64Gb, PC Slave 64gb, Mac Pro 12 48Gb, MacBookPro, Apollo interface, Universal Audio, Waves 9, NI Komplete 9, VSL, BFD3, Superior, Arturia, Sound Toys, Euphonix MC Mix, Neumann mics, DynAudio, Yamaha + Adam monitors AND Steinway Concert Grand A ;-)
Posted on Fri, Apr 03 2020 15:17
by Ashermusic
Joined on Fri, Jan 02 2009, Posts 542

I am a single instance per instrument guy. Just like a score page.

Composer, Logic Pro Certified Trainer, author of "Going Pro With Logic Pro 9" & "Scoring WIth Logic Pro"
www.jayasher.com

3.4 i7 Quad Core iMac, 32 GB RAM.,
OS X 10.15.2
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