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How to make VSL Strings sound great (VI Library Video)
Last post Sun, Apr 19 2020 by woy, 13 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Apr 09 2020 18:09
by Eloy Sherlock
Joined on Tue, Dec 04 2007, Valencia, Posts 24

I love music  and made ( I have extra time these days) a video of "How to make VSL strings sound great". Please share your tips fot the VI Libraries. Thank you, Eloy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehtj_KGV41I

Posted on Thu, Apr 09 2020 19:07
by Betuel
Joined on Sat, Jan 11 2014, Posts 44

Great post, thank you! 

Posted on Thu, Apr 09 2020 19:28
by Fabio Biolcati
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2013, Posts 161

Everyone wearing a 7506 has my appreciation.

Thank you for sharing (and speaking in such an undestandable way).

Fabio Biolcati
SE1 Bundle, SE2&3 Strings; Notion5; Tannoy Reveal 501a
Posted on Tue, Apr 14 2020 02:38
by Eloy Sherlock
Joined on Tue, Dec 04 2007, Valencia, Posts 24

Fabio,

You are one observant man. Many years ago I purchased a pair of 7506 for my studio. I kept buying the same headphones so everybody would have the same levels while recording.

VSL products are really great. I wish "easy to understand" VSL videos were made when I started investing into their products - it would have made the journey easier. Thank you, Eloy

Posted on Tue, Apr 14 2020 15:50
by Thorsteinn
Joined on Thu, Sep 22 2016, Posts 7

That was an excellentvideo, Eloy.  Thank you for taking the time to create it.  There are some very innovative ideas in here about how add additional texture to the strings.  I like the way you created a new "palette of sound" by stacking different articulations in the player.  It helps us extract new timbres from the librares we have rather than go shopping when we don't hear the sound we are looking for.   

Posted on Tue, Apr 14 2020 21:59
by Eloy Sherlock
Joined on Tue, Dec 04 2007, Valencia, Posts 24

Thorsteinn,

Exactly! Example I purchased Afflatus strings -truly a lovely library but, they have no player - the workflow became bad. So, I listened carefully to their beautiful violins "scene d'amour" patch and recreated it with multiple VSL VI string samples in one cell - you cannot tell the difference (using the mixer to adjust sample patch levels). Now I have the "Afflatus sounds" with a better workflow. Plus they are missing so many articulations. Another example- Metropolis ark-a great sounding library with BIG strings - you can recreate that sound with the VSL VI string series- use MIR Pro Teldex(same recording location as all Berlin libraries). VSL recorded real strings dry and gives you different halls to put them in -but, they never showed me (or you) IN A VIDEO that once you own all of the string VI series that you can combine and have virtully endless combinations. Instead you buy new string libraries in the hope that you will get the Holy Grail of strings. But once you buy the other libraries you realize it is not the Holy Grail. That is when I started to listen to what I liked about the other libraries and imitate them. Also once you move the second microphone in MIR Pro to the back of the room and adjust DB-WOW! VSL gives you the best tools- they are expensive,time consuming and complicated. But once you learn them and set up your template (many,many,many months) you can do anything your talent allows. Thank you, Eloy

https://youtu.be/Ehtj_KGV41I

Posted on Wed, Apr 15 2020 13:32
by woy
Joined on Sun, Oct 31 2004, Monaco, Posts 41

Dear Eloy,

I am so impressed with your video, and your experiences of other sample libraries and providers matches my own in so many ways. Your approach to combining different samples in a single Matrix is extremely helpful. Although VSL have previously made combination Matrixes available (eg Inspiration) I always had the impression that this was donerather grudgingly and somehow took away from their perception of "purity". Perhaps for a  master such as Guy Bacos that might be true, but for some of us mere mortals, the approach you bring is tremedously helpful. Speaking purely personally (and not wishing in any way to abuse your time and good nature), i personally would be willing to pay for a reasonably comprehensive set of "Eloy VSL Matrixes) that could be downloaded and used in our VSL set ups.

In any event, - thank you again and i wish you joy with your music.

Regards,

Roy

Posted on Thu, Apr 16 2020 13:46
by Holgmeister
Joined on Fri, Feb 13 2004, Gross Zimmern, Posts 142

Hi Eloy,

great video, even for long time users of VSL.
I really like your idea of GAS...insted of buying all these other libraries..try to maximize with what you have, that is more than enough.
It reminds me that the original VSL and MIR is really capable of a lot of things and then some more. We just have to make it adapt to all the new 2020 perception of sound.

I liked the idea of the additional Microphone in the room ... and much more. Can't emphasize enough your approach to use vibrate and dynamics..something that I often missed.

Great stuff, please let us have more of your work..technically as well as your compositions.

Thx and Cheers HS

Orchestral Noise and Magick
Symphonic Cube, Piano, Prepared Piano and MIR24
Posted on Fri, Apr 17 2020 13:48
by Thorsteinn
Joined on Thu, Sep 22 2016, Posts 7

Originally Posted by: Eloy Go to Quoted Post

Thorsteinn,

Exactly! Example I purchased Afflatus strings -truly a lovely library but, they have no player - the workflow became bad. So, I listened carefully to their beautiful violins "scene d'amour" patch and recreated it with multiple VSL VI string samples in one cell - you cannot tell the difference (using the mixer to adjust sample patch levels). Now I have the "Afflatus sounds" with a better workflow. Plus they are missing so many articulations. Another example- Metropolis ark-a great sounding library with BIG strings - you can recreate that sound with the VSL VI string series- use MIR Pro Teldex(same recording location as all Berlin libraries). VSL recorded real strings dry and gives you different halls to put them in -but, they never showed me (or you) IN A VIDEO that once you own all of the string VI series that you can combine and have virtully endless combinations. Instead you buy new string libraries in the hope that you will get the Holy Grail of strings. But once you buy the other libraries you realize it is not the Holy Grail. That is when I started to listen to what I liked about the other libraries and imitate them. Also once you move the second microphone in MIR Pro to the back of the room and adjust DB-WOW! VSL gives you the best tools- they are expensive,time consuming and complicated. But once you learn them and set up your template (many,many,many months) you can do anything your talent allows. Thank you, Eloy

https://youtu.be/Ehtj_KGV41I


... I totally agree.  There is a lot you can do with VSL if you know how to use the tools and can think outside the box to solve the problems you come up against.  That's where the "tricks of the trade" videos come in handy, like the one you kindly created for us.  They can save you a lot of time, money and frustration. 

  There are a couple of more gems out there that I found very helpful:

  One from Stephen Limbaugh where he talks about his workflow in great detail.  The entire video is fantastic, but I love some of his tricks.  He uses for example the humaniser to create a custom vibrato when the vibrato articulation doesn't quite give him what he is looking for.  Stephen's video can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_7gfkDDZEo&t=196s

   Another one is from Corrado Trabuio.  He has a passage played by appassionata violins.  To increase the definition of the violins, he duplicates the track and assigns the copy to solo violin 1 which he places a bit closer to the microphone in MIR.  He then duplicates it again and assigns the second copy to solo violin 2 to create an additional desk.  That builds on some of the concepts that you were talking about in your video.  Corrado's video can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZozZ74bATw&t=30s

  Thank you again for creating the video.

  All the best

        Thorsteinn

Posted on Fri, Apr 17 2020 18:19
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 404

@Thorsteinn,

Thanks for the video links. They are very useful tips. 

Posted on Fri, Apr 17 2020 19:19
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 404

Hi,

I think It would be very helpful if there were some video tutorials showing how to use the various VSL String Articulations with each other to create realistic string phrases for various musical passages.  i.e. When to use this artic. after this articulation for this effect, ...etc. basically tips, and tricks of how to use the various articulations, and related ways to manage the Matrices, Keyswitches, Slots, ..etc. This is quite a complex, and deep topic, so it would need a lot of well produced videos, showing the details, and not rushing through the material, but rather explaining it in detail, even if that means a whole series of videos would be needed for this topic. i.e.Videos Volume 1, Volume 2, ...etc. 

I checked for this type of video/s on Youtube, but I didn't find any that focus on this very important detail. I would even buy this type of video tutorials if they existed. 

Thanks,

Muziksculp 

Posted on Sat, Apr 18 2020 16:12
by Eloy Sherlock
Joined on Tue, Dec 04 2007, Valencia, Posts 24

Roy and Holgmiester,

Thank you for watching the video. I am going to film another one when I finish scoring the 1926 Faust movie (personal enjoyment -maybe 2 weeks). It will have screen shots of the single cell string matrix patches. I always work to perform all tracks live with as little adjustments as possible. By using the Hornberg breath controller (I know it is expensive- invest in your tools) volume,velocity xfade, expression and slot cross fade (foot pedal -vibrato) are controlled in 1 take. My template has adjusted Volume,velocity and xfade  "curves" under the control map - this is a must (otherwise you spend too much time tinkering) for me. No there no such thing as "purity" - only what sounds good. Yes the "perception" of sound has changed in 2020 and is constantly evolving - but the instruments are the same. Practice makes perfect- work on the talent God gave you- few people have it. Eloy

 

https://youtu.be/Ehtj_KGV41I

Posted on Sun, Apr 19 2020 13:01
by woy
Joined on Sun, Oct 31 2004, Monaco, Posts 41

Thanks Eloy.

To be fair to VSL,-  they did provide some excellent and really helpful examples of multiple matrix setups in their video (30) VIENNA SPECIAL EDITION: Inspiration Presets (HD) - YouTube. The Inspiration matrixes are free and available to download with a VEPRO license.

Recently however, the company appears to be solely concentrating on the Syncron platform. I have a feeling that there would be significant interest from within the current owners of VIPRO products for many more examples of multiple matrix setups.

Although VSL always poiint out that their examples are only a starting point and you can do anything with and to them, nevertheless  they are extremely helpful to start the process and take you forward. I think your own video is exactly in line with this thinking.

Regards,

Roy

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