Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
Basic question about VEP7 as a host/mixer
Last post Sun, Dec 06 2020 by civilization 3, 7 replies.
Options
Go to last post
Posted on Sat, Oct 24 2020 21:00
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Hi folks!

I have a (I think) quite basic question about the use of VEP7.
I'm aware that "preserve" makes VEP7 function like a standalone tool, hosting my samples, and my DAW will just connect to it. If the instance is not (!) "decoupled", VEP7 data will be saved to my DAW project. If my DAW project contains VEP7 data, it can be loaded/discarded from within VEP7.

Now, if I want to mix my song #1 inside VEP7 (and not my DAW) and save that mix, I need to (a) save the VEP7 data into my DAW project (by "coupling" at least on the last save) or (b) save the VEP7 server project itself.

However, if I then switch to a new DAW project song #2 (which we assume to use the exact same set of instruments/VEP instances, i.e. the same VEP7 server project, basically), I need to either load the plugin data from the song #2 DAW project (if I followed route (a) when saving) or load the respective VEP7 project (if I went for option (b)).

Assuming that what I stated so far is really correct, my questions are:

  1. In both cases (a) and (b) all instances and thus samples are reloaded. Effectively, this means that I do need to reload my template every time I switch songs when mixing in VEP7. If I want to prevent this, I need to mix in the DAW and make no changes in the VEP7 server project that are unique to the current song. Is this correct?
  2. If 1) is correct: What is the recommended way to use VEP7 as a host and mixer while keeping loading processes at a minimum?
  3. If I want to load my template only once in the beginning and flexibly change between DAW projects, do I need to mix in the DAW? In other words: Should I perform mixing steps that are on a "template level" (balance, basic EQs/processing, etc.) in VEP7 and mixing steps that are unique to each individual project ("project/song level") inside the DAW?

Thank you for your insights!

Kind regards,
Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Sun, Oct 25 2020 22:47
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1698

"Now, if I want to mix my song #1 inside VEP7 (and not my DAW) and save that mix, I need to (a) save the VEP7 data into my DAW project (by "coupling" at least on the last save) or (b) save the VEP7 server project itself."

 

No. That is definitely not reason to couple the two, it's simply a matter of saving the VEP server project and saving the DAW project. It is not any standalone, it's just preserved (and decoupled) in order to not have it unload while you switch DAW projects, or to just close the one or quit. 

To my way of thinking there is no upside to coupling the two, a project will soon enough become unwieldy to save along with a DAW project, long, long save times, and this situation can become unstable.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7
Posted on Sun, Oct 25 2020 22:53
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1698

"#2 (which we assume to use the exact same set of instruments/VEP instances, i.e. the same VEP7 server project, basically), I need to either load the plugin data from the song #2 DAW project (if I followed route (a) when saving) or load the respective VEP7 project"

 

All you need to do is launch the DAW project while VEP sits there. I can't tell what 'plugin data from the song #2 DAW project' refers to but it's not relevant. It's a very simple matter, the two [VEP vs DAW] are separate projects which may be connected. So, "Assuming that what I stated so far is really correct," - it isn't, so the questions after that point are moot.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7
Posted on Mon, Oct 26 2020 12:48
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Hi,

thanks for your input. I'm not sure if there might be a misunderstanding.
You state that my basic assumptions are invalid (and hence my follow-up questions), but I don't quite agree. At least I don't see why they should be wrong (see direct comments below).

I'll try to clarify my point with a more concrete example:

Let's assume I have created a VEP instance called "Basic Strings". It includes some string instruments, basic articulation matrices and standard level balancing in the VEP mixer. I now want to build a (very simple) template for string music, thus I create a VEP Server project "String Template" which will host only my "Basic Strings" VEP instance. It is the starting point of all my string music projects and at the beginning of a string music day, I load this server project and connect my DAW to it (with whatever project using this template). And of course, I can change DAW projects and reconnect as long as my template is "preserved".

BUT: What if my DAW projects demand different mixes? That is, DAW project #1 demands +6dB on 1st and 2nd violin of my "Basic Strings" VEP instance inside "String template". And DAW project #2 wants -20dB on the Violas plus a high cut at 3 kHz? How to save those changes? More importantly, how do I now switch between project #1 and #2 without reloading all samples (only the faders/processing plugins have changed). Because, understandably, if I saved two versions of the server project (one for #1, one for #2), I need to reload the correct one for the current song and then connect.

I hope my OP is clearer now - the three questions remain.

Kind regards :)
Lukas

+++

Originally Posted by: civilization 3 Go to Quoted Post

"Now, if I want to mix my song #1 inside VEP7 (and not my DAW) and save that mix, I need to (a) save the VEP7 data into my DAW project (by "coupling" at least on the last save) or (b) save the VEP7 server project itself."

No. That is definitely not reason to couple the two, it's simply a matter of saving the VEP server project and saving the DAW project. It is not any standalone, it's just preserved (and decoupled) in order to not have it unload while you switch DAW projects, or to just close the one or quit. 

 

To my way of thinking there is no upside to coupling the two, a project will soon enough become unwieldy to save along with a DAW project, long, long save times, and this situation can become unstable.

It seems to me you are contradicting what is given in the VEP7 manual (VEP7 - preserve/decouple) in the red "caution" box at the end of the "decouple" section. (Lets take aside the performance implications of coupling at this point.) What is the reason for coupling, if not to save all VEP data inside the DAW project, to your mind?

"It is not any standalone, it's just preserved [...]" I don't understand what do you mean by that.

Originally Posted by: civilization 3 Go to Quoted Post

"#2 (which we assume to use the exact same set of instruments/VEP instances, i.e. the same VEP7 server project, basically), I need to either load the plugin data from the song #2 DAW project (if I followed route (a) when saving) or load the respective VEP7 project"

All you need to do is launch the DAW project while VEP sits there. I can't tell what 'plugin data from the song #2 DAW project' refers to but it's not relevant. It's a very simple matter, the two [VEP vs DAW] are separate projects which may be connected. So, "Assuming that what I stated so far is really correct," - it isn't, so the questions after that point are moot.

"I can't tell what 'plugin data from the song #2 DAW project' refers to but it's not relevant." If I open a DAW project which contains VEP data (because they were coupled at the time of saving), VEP7 server allows to load this stored data - which is what I meant to refer to.

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Sun, Nov 22 2020 17:35
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Originally Posted by: LuCsa Go to Quoted Post

[...]

I'll try to clarify my point with a more concrete example:

Let's assume I have created a VEP instance called "Basic Strings". It includes some string instruments, basic articulation matrices and standard level balancing in the VEP mixer. I now want to build a (very simple) template for string music, thus I create a VEP Server project "String Template" which will host only my "Basic Strings" VEP instance. It is the starting point of all my string music projects and at the beginning of a string music day, I load this server project and connect my DAW to it (with whatever project using this template). And of course, I can change DAW projects and reconnect as long as my template is "preserved".

BUT: What if my DAW projects demand different mixes? That is, DAW project #1 demands +6dB on 1st and 2nd violin of my "Basic Strings" VEP instance inside "String template". And DAW project #2 wants -20dB on the Violas plus a high cut at 3 kHz? How to save those changes? More importantly, how do I now switch between project #1 and #2 without reloading all samples (only the faders/processing plugins have changed). Because, understandably, if I saved two versions of the server project (one for #1, one for #2), I need to reload the correct one for the current song and then connect.

I hope my OP is clearer now - the three questions remain.

[...]

Since I am just now coming back to tinkering on my template (SSP incoming~~), I would like to bump this thread and ask if someone could shed some light on this, please. :)

Thanks and cheers,
Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Sun, Dec 06 2020 02:02
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1698

Originally Posted by: LuCsa Go to Quoted Post

I'll try to clarify my point with a more concrete example:

[...] I load this server project and connect my DAW to it (with whatever project using this template). And of course, I can change DAW projects and reconnect as long as my template is "preserved".

BUT: What if my DAW projects demand different mixes? That is, DAW project #1 demands +6dB on 1st and 2nd violin of my "Basic Strings" VEP instance inside "String template". And DAW project #2 wants -20dB on the Violas plus a high cut at 3 kHz? How to save those changes? More importantly, how do I now switch between project #1 and #2 without reloading all samples (only the faders/processing plugins have changed). Because, understandably, if I saved two versions of the server project (one for #1, one for #2), I need to reload the correct one for the current song and then connect.

I hope my OP is clearer now - the three questions remain.

Just leave the VE Pro project up, decoupled and preserved, and connect to them per your DAW project. Close the window of the DAW project and it disconnects so you can reconnect the next one.  You could in fact have two instances up, though, and DAW proj #1 connects to what it needs and #2 what it needs.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7
Posted on Sun, Dec 06 2020 02:03
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1698

"What is the reason for coupling, if not to save all VEP data inside the DAW project, to your mind?"
that's the reason, I just don't get any upside to it. What you want is possible via decoupling without reloading samples, which is what you want and what I advised to begin with. Yes, you can do it and make the DAW reload this particular save with it vs the other, but if you want a particular mix up you may have all of them up in their own instance and connect per instance. I don't think you'll be breaking the CPU bank with strings samples doing so.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7
You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.