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Posted on Wed, Feb 03 2021 18:29
by JJonesDTRT
Joined on Fri, Nov 17 2017, Posts 17

Greetings: I'm new to VSL and this forum. I've completed the first movement of a string quartet in Sibelius which leverages a lot of expression from the instruments, including artificial harmonics, a senza vibrato passage, and lots of tenuto. So far I have a rendering using Sibelius's NotePerformer, which works fine for compositional needs, but isn't realistic enough for a final product. I've tried the matrix presets in VIP, and haven't found one that works with my existing Sibelius manuscript.

I know that patches exist to cover the less common performance techniques, but I'm wondering how best to trigger them. I have installed the appropriate Sibelius sound set, but have the barest understanding of how to leverage it beyond the obvious rendering of dynamics, etc. I have Vienna Ensemble 6.5, Vienna Instruments Pro, the basic VI orchestral library (with additional extended libraries for solo strings I and II, and orchestral strings, and Solo Violin 2). My DAW is W10/all SSD, haven't run up against any hardware limitations so far. I also have Pro Tools, and am prepared to move a MIDI export from Sibelius to it if that makes the most sense.

My goal is a realistic rendering of my music, reflecting the normal variation of live players. (I'm a former viola performer, so I know how things SHOULD sound.)

Should I just trigger the patches manually in VIP matrix, through CC, or is there some way of doing it simpler? I'm pretty sure I know how that might work, but haven't tried it yet -- it seems very labor-intensive.

Not unrelated -- is there anything to be gained in realism through patch changes triggered by variations in velocity? (My first attempts at that produced very unsatisfying results, since it seems like the patches aren't uniform in volume.)

Thanks in advance.

Jeffrey Jones
Sibelius/Pro Tools/VSL (all current)
W10, i7-4771 @ 3.50 GHz, 32G RAM, all drives SSD
M-Audio Keystation88
https://jeffreyljonesmusic.com/
Posted on Thu, Feb 04 2021 08:48
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3621

Hello Jeffrey!

You can find detailed instructions on how to use our libraries with Sibelius here:
https://www.vsl.info/tutorials/guides/sibelius-integration/introduction

For a string quartet, I would proceed as follows:

- Import the "Vienna Symphonic Library" House Style. If you only keep the instrument definitions and the playback dictionary selected, your layout will stay the same.

- Make a Sibelius playback configuration with the "VE Strings" sound set and four Vienna Instruments Pro channels inside Vienna Ensemble. Load the prepared VI presets for Sibelius/Strings 3.8/Solo Strings/SSI+II - extended.

- Fine-tune the playback by triggering different articulations and editing notes or phrases with the Sibelius Inspector.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Feb 04 2021 14:53
by JJonesDTRT
Joined on Fri, Nov 17 2017, Posts 17

Andi:  Yeah, well that's a newbie for ya! I had completely missed the Sibelius Presets at the bottom of the list. Once selected, a lot of the problems completely disappeared. (I especially love the senza vibrato sounds!) I had the House Styles already installed, so the new Presets immediately picked up the play styles. As a result of that change, I did make a few adjustments in notation to push changes in sample selection, but the results are very close to what I want. I know about the Sibelius Inspector, but haven't used it that much.

However, my current concern is variations in note start. In a DAW environment, it's pretty easy to randomize small differences in the timed starts of notes, to improve the performance sounding more human. (I know about/leverage the "humanize" VIP advanced settings, but I don't see how that affects the timing of note starts.) In my current playback, not only are note starts absolutely uniform (which isn't desirable), but most aren't clean at all -- the pitch seems to start without a true note attack, making the playback less "instrumental." I've attached a video file (WMV at 360p, so you can see the score). I think you can hear what I'm talking about there. In case this is a hardware problem, you can see my computer hardware in my auto-sig --  I can add that my audio interface in Sibelius is a Focusrite USB (WASAPI), if that has any impact.

Any hints on that, I'm all ears. And thanks for your patience!

File Attachment(s):
StringQuartet_1VSL.wmv (8,750kb) downloaded 4 time(s).

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Jeffrey Jones
Sibelius/Pro Tools/VSL (all current)
W10, i7-4771 @ 3.50 GHz, 32G RAM, all drives SSD
M-Audio Keystation88
https://jeffreyljonesmusic.com/
Posted on Thu, Feb 04 2021 17:27
by Pieman1560
Joined on Mon, May 07 2018, Gloucestershire, UK, Posts 69

Hi Jeffrey

If you're looking to get the best experience possible in Sibelius with VSL..there is a superb plugin available that will make using VSL and Sibelius just lovely!

It's called the 'Graphical Midi Tools' plugin from a developer called Santiago Barx

With it, you can adjust any midi CC value you want, edit the timing of notes and a whole lot more...directly from the score in Sibelius and see your midi curves etc laid out over the score

Its fantastic!

I've done a few demos of it on my website. the videos are quite long!..but go over the functions and the VSL stuff starts at about 19:30 in the video

https://www.everythingsibelius.com/graphical-midi-tools/

I hope this helps you get the best out of VSL and Sibelius mate...as you'll be able to tweak all the controls VSL have (like humanisation, expression...anything really) directly from your score!

Kindest regards

Paul

Posted on Fri, Feb 05 2021 08:14
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3621

Hi Jeffrey!

To get stronger attacks you could use the marcato articulations. To trigger marcato for a single note, add a marcato mark from the Sibelius notepad symbols. To trigger marcato for a whole phrase, add the technique text command "marcato".

If you want to humanize the note starts, you can use the humanize/delay option of the Vienna Instruments Pro player. I would full turn up the Hmz fader on the Advanced/Perform page and turn up the Dly fader to a value that sounds fine for you.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Feb 06 2021 03:11
by JJonesDTRT
Joined on Fri, Nov 17 2017, Posts 17

Andi:
       I've started to play with the humanize settings, but it's pretty difficult to hear serious changes, though they're noticeable at entrances which follow rests. I'm not sure I want marcato across the board, but am willing to try it. It might just be that I have too high an expectation for a sample-based playback, but I've got time. ;-)
          By the way, I've noticed that "Humanize" seems to live with each patch. The Sibelius Presets leverage quite a lot of patches. So far my approach has been to watch the playback in VIP, and make sure every used patch has "humanize" enabled and a file selected. Is there a way to easily enable/associated a selected "humanize" file on all patches in a Preset at once? I haven't found that yet.
         Thanks again.

Jeffrey Jones
Sibelius/Pro Tools/VSL (all current)
W10, i7-4771 @ 3.50 GHz, 32G RAM, all drives SSD
M-Audio Keystation88
https://jeffreyljonesmusic.com/
Posted on Sat, Feb 06 2021 10:14
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3621

Hello Jeffrey!

I wouldn't use marcato across the board either. For some passages it will fit, for some other passages legato will fit better.

You can auto-humanize presets or matrices. Presets can be auto-humanized in the VI Pro settings, matrices can be auto-humanized by right-clicking the matrix and selecting auto-humanize.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Feb 06 2021 18:51
by JJonesDTRT
Joined on Fri, Nov 17 2017, Posts 17

Once again thanks for your help. Got the full-matrix setting through right-click. Still haven't figured out full-preset, but this isn't a hardship.

The 3rd movement of my string quartet starts with pizzicato. I can REALLY hear the variation in notes there! 

Jeffrey Jones
Sibelius/Pro Tools/VSL (all current)
W10, i7-4771 @ 3.50 GHz, 32G RAM, all drives SSD
M-Audio Keystation88
https://jeffreyljonesmusic.com/
Posted on Sun, Feb 07 2021 10:09
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3621

Hello Jeffrey!

I have attached a screenshot where you can see where to auto-humanize the preset.

Best,
Andi

andi attached the following image(s):
VIP_General-Settings.jpg (96kb) downloaded 1 time(s).

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Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
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