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Dimension Strings molto vibrato
Last post Sat, Apr 10 2021 by PaoloT, 17 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 09:51
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 965

Hi,

I don't know if this has been requested, but in case I'll request it once more: is there a way to have a "molto vibrato", or "espressivo" articulation in Dimension Strings?

Currently, we have Regular vibrato, Non vibrato, and Progressive vibrato. This latter could contain the Molto vibrato I'm looking for, but can't be used without the long initial transition. The player has no way to cut into the vibrato part of the sample.

I guess this is something that can be done by editing the original samples. It would really be a great bonus content, if it can be another one.

Paolo

Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 11:13
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 287

I know what you mean. I played and mixed different players, and I think it's not an issue anymore, at least for me. But it took a very (!) long time to figure out which player combination sounds best. I only use 4 players per section in a combination: half of the section play regular, the other half progressive/espressivo.

Progressive/espressivo is very "molto", but it kicks in a bit late. This is how the players were recorded. In my opinion, these patches are the best vibrato patches VSL has to offer.

Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 13:27
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 214

Pixelpoet, thanks for that very excellent idea. I immediately tried it and find the combination of (Group 1) regular vibr. + (Group 2) progressive vibr. is indeed very lovely - but yes: it has me waiting a little too impatiently for that most beautiful espressivo vibrato to kick in.

Then I had an idea for ameliorating my impatience:– 

I've just added a "Prog. vib" slot to the "XF vibrato" dimension column of Group 1, and then in the next dimension column I attached the relevant "Vib-progr" patch for each of the Group 1 players.

Now I can have both Groups in unisono start playing a note with regular vibrato until the (already triggered and silently running) delayed vibrato in Group 1 is established, then X-fade to my new "Progr. vib" slot in the Group 1 Sy Player.

I'll also add the same edit for Group 2, so I have the option of X-fading from regular vib to espressivo vib in both Groups as soon as the time is right.

 

Paolo, I add my request to yours. You and Pixelpoet have rightly pointed out that the Vib-prog patch is beautifully espressivo when its vibrato is established; so, as you suggest, surely it's possible to cut the front end off those Vib-progr samples to provide us with new Molto Vibrato patches.

(Lol, now I'm having wicked silly ideas about making some protest placards, saying, for example, "PLEASE VSL, give us Molto Vibrato in Dimension Strings", then a gang of us march up and down Engelshofengasse, waving the placards and chanting "What do we want?" etc. Lololol.)

Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 15:03
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 965

Originally Posted by: Macker Go to Quoted Post

(Lol, now I'm having wicked silly ideas about making some protest placards, saying, for example, "PLEASE VSL, give us Molto Vibrato in Dimension Strings", then a gang of us march up and down Engelshofengasse, waving the placards and chanting "What do we want?" etc. Lololol.)

YES, LET'S MAKE A VIBRANT PROTEST! MOLTO VIBRATO FOR THE MASSES!

Pixelpoet, smart workaround. All considered, most of the time you enter molto vibrato fading in from regular vibrato. But the transition in progressive vibrato is still a bit too long.

Paolo

Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 16:24
by belkina
Joined on Sun, Jun 13 2004, Montreal, Posts 464

I have to say: this is one of the main reasons I am now using Synchron Strings Pro: the strong vibrato!

Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 16:29
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 287

There is an older thread of mine in which I tried the stretch feature in VI Pro to alter the envelope of the progressive vibrato in a way that it would kick in earlier, at least I was trying. Can't remember the thread; but anyway it didn't work. :D

What I meant in my previous post: At first I really wished that the vibrato would kick in earlier, but actually I like it the way it is. You have to wait until it kicks in, this is true, but the louder you get with Velocity XF the more it kicks in earlier, isn't it? I don't know if this is only my imagination. If I really want molto vibrato, then I also play forte or fortissimo. Of course, you can't have this "espressivo pianissimo" as in Synchron Strings Pro.

I always associate molto vibrato with louder volumes, and I think this is the reason why the VI libraries sound very natural because of the "baked-in" vibrato: The louder you get, the more vibrato you have. I'm not a big fan of vibrato crossfades and this is one of the reasons why I don't like Synchron Strings (Pro). Would be nice to have a progressive vibrato, too.

Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 16:33
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 287

Originally Posted by: belkina Go to Quoted Post

I have to say: this is one of the main reasons I am now using Synchron Strings Pro: the strong vibrato!

Interesting how different expectations are! :) I don't like crossfades, because you hear that the section sounds bigger and washy; I prefer the "natural" vibrato I mentioned in my earlier post. For me, the vibrato in Synchron Strings (Pro) is either too light or too strong. I miss a nice middle, maybe a progressive vibrato.

Dimension Strings has exactly the "taste" I want my vibrato, and it is more comparable to other string libraries. 

Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 21:27
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Originally Posted by: belkina Go to Quoted Post

I have to say: this is one of the main reasons I am now using Synchron Strings Pro: the strong vibrato!

Alan,

My apologies for briefly hi-jacking this thread.  I saw your name and did a double-take!  I am at this very moment working my way through your Applied Counterpoint course on YouTube.  

Small world, I guess!  Thank you so much for the clear/concise educational material. 

- Sam

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 14:27
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 965

By the way, my dudettes and fellas: when blending between n.v. and molto vib., do you put a regular vib. in the middle? Or, do you prefer to go straight from n.v. to molto vib. to minimize any side effect of crossfading?

Paolo

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 15:15
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Originally Posted by: PaoloT Go to Quoted Post

By the way, my dudettes and fellas: when blending between n.v. and molto vib., do you put a regular vib. in the middle? Or, do you prefer to go straight from n.v. to molto vib. to minimize any side effect of crossfading?

Paolo

I go straight from n.v to molto.  More than two vib. types in the dimension adds too much phasing for it to be worth it, imo.

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 15:48
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 965

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam Go to Quoted Post

I go straight from n.v to molto.  More than two vib. types in the dimension adds too much phasing for it to be worth it, imo.

I was fearing this. So, straight between the two extremes. All considered, it seems to be effective.

Paolo

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 17:06
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 287

I don't crossfade in general, but I would also use the regular vibrato. A crossfaded molto vibrato is still a molto vibrato at lower controller values, in my opinion.

What you could do in the Synchron Player is a new dimension with regular and molto vibrato, but not played together (stacking disabled). Let molto vibrato kick in when you play forte (that would be a simple patch change instead of a crossfade) – either by your modwheel or e.g. by velocity. This also avoids this doubled, washy, bigger sound while crossfading.

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 17:39
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

What you could do in the Synchron Player is a new dimension with regular and molto vibrato, but not played together (stacking disabled). Let molto vibrato kick in when you play forte (that would be a simple patch change instead of a crossfade) – either by your modwheel or e.g. by velocity. This also avoids this doubled, washy, bigger sound while crossfading.

Only limitation of this is that the patch change will only occur when a new note is triggered, so you can't switch from n.v to molto v. during the same held note, unfortunately.

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 22:37
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 965

As Sam says, velocity controlled vibrato wouldn't work in all situations.

As for me, I keep the individual vibrato patches selectable alone, and via crossfade. Crossfades are only called into play when needed.

In Synchron presets I've separated XFades, as in the examples given by VSL. In Vienna Instruments I've added the crossfading slot in the main cells. But I don't know if this can eat memory even when the crossfading slot is not used.

Paolo

Posted on Sat, Apr 10 2021 01:38
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Originally Posted by: PaoloT Go to Quoted Post

In Vienna Instruments I've added the crossfading slot in the main cells. But I don't know if this can eat memory even when the crossfading slot is not used.

I do the same thing!  I tested it out, and - thankfully - it does not eat memory.  If you have two or more of the same patch the RAM eaten up will only be equivalent to the first patch.  To be clear, that means you can have Sus_Vib added to No_Vib, Prog_Vib, Tremelo, Tremelo f.attack, etc. etc. and it will only count the first Sus_Vib patch in RAM.

Posted on Sat, Apr 10 2021 20:40
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 287

Yes, this is true that a velocity based vibrato isn't suitable for all applications. I just wanted to share an alternative I tried and liked.

I don't use slot crossfades in VI Pro that much (especially for vibrato), because it not only makes the sound bigger, there is also an immensely huge voice count with Dimension Strings.

Posted on Sat, Apr 10 2021 22:00
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 965

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam Go to Quoted Post

I do the same thing!  I tested it out, and - thankfully - it does not eat memory.

Ah, beautiful!

Paolo

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