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Velocity Layers fast repetitions in Dimension Strings
Last post Sat, Oct 30 2021 by Macker, 6 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Jul 17 2021 12:07
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 567

Hi to the forum,

 

I cannot find in the manual for the VI Dimension strings how many velocity layers are in the

fast repetitions. If anyone can tell me, that would be great.

 

Thank you,

Steve

Posted on Sun, Jul 18 2021 10:53
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 379

Steve, a quick listening test I've just done with the  01 VA-PI_RE_fast-rep_140 patch suggests there are 2 layers: at velocities = 0 to 88, and 89 to 127. I don't know if that's true for all cases of every fast-rep patch.

It's a good question. Although I happen to have Dim Strings I in both VI and Synchronized versions, for my other Synchronized libraries I depend on the equivalent VI user manuals to give me an idea of how many velocity layers I might expect (since the Synchronised manuals are all way too simplistic). But in this particular case, as you've noticed, the VI manual is strangely silent on how many layers are in the RE fast-rep patches; I'm wondering why.

Quickest way to test how many layers is to set Velocity X-Fade On, Release samples Off, and play a single note on a single patch while looking at the Voices numerical readout. In our case here the number shown is 2, which means 2 layers because for X-Fade to work, all velocity layers must always be triggered by each Note-On, no matter what the note's velocity happens to be.

Of course it's also possible to find out how many layers - though involving much more faffing around -  by playing or programming single notes over a range of velocities and just listening closely (setting DynR=0 can make this much easier).

Posted on Sun, Jul 18 2021 11:52
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 567

Hi Macker,

 

thanks for your reply. Thank you kindly for taking the time to work this out for me.

That's an interesting way of working it out.

Thanks for letting me know your conclusion that you came to.

 

best regards,

 

Steve :-)

Posted on Tue, Oct 05 2021 21:58
by badibeat
Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2009, Posts 19

Originally Posted by: Macker Go to Quoted Post
Quickest way to test how many layers is to set Velocity X-Fade On, Release samples Off, and play a single note on a single patch while looking at the Voices numerical readout. In our case here the number shown is 2, which means 2 layers because for X-Fade to work, all velocity layers must always be triggered by each Note-On, no matter what the note's velocity happens to be.

I believe this is not correct, you just need two adjacent layers for cross-fade to work efficiently. Therefore the answer you'd get using this method is never more than 2, no matter how many layers there are.

Posted on Sat, Oct 09 2021 17:34
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 379

Badibeat, if you have reproducible evidence that unseats the validity of my hypothesis above, please by all means do let us know. Meanwhile, my assertion that Voice count readout = number of velocity layers in the patch, still stands.

Sorry but I must decline your invitation to entertain conjectural rabbit holes. However, I would perhaps concede that my wording "... because for X-fade to work ..." could have been somewhat better conditioned, such as, " ... because according to my hypothetical model of the VI Pro Player VXF mechanism, for X-fade to work ...". And likewise, in your case, I'd suggest your assertion could be conditioned somewhat more explicitly, perhaps by saying, "... according to my concept of a conjectural velocity cross-fading mechanism ...".

Posted on Sat, Oct 30 2021 22:07
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 379

Oops! Hold the phone!

Just encountered some hard evidence that invalidates my "rule of thumb" that a patch's number of Velocity layers = "Voices" readout (with VXF On and Release Off); or at least places a condition on its validity.

While recently comparing VI Timpani (Full) patches with Synchron Timpani, I noticed that the VI Pro "Voices" readout shows no more than 4 voices when an 8-layer patch is played. This seems to suggest that VIPro's VXF mechanism operates with a maximum of 4 concurrent velocity layer voice streams at any one time: perhaps in this case covering either the upper group of velocities or the lower group, depending on the current note velocity - though of course it's not possible to be certain without knowing or having the actual source code listings at hand.

In light of this new evidence (and pending further, more revealing hard evidence) I'm now assuming that my original rule of thumb is (provisionally) valid only for patches with up to 4 velocity layers.

My apologies for not having tested my original hypothesis further at the time - especially given that I could and should have tested it with my VI Timpani library but didn't. Slipshod work; big tut-tuts!

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