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Posted on Fri, Aug 06 2021 08:22
by Sandrew
Joined on Fri, Nov 01 2019, Basel, Posts 18

Hi all

I'm looking for someone who can educate my about the signal flow of dry and wet signals through MIR Pro, especially in regards to the instrument's "dry/wet" and the output's "dry/wet offset" faders. I understand that the insrument's "dry/wet" fader is basically a simple crossfade between the dry and the wet signal as long as the output's "dry/wet offset" is at 0% (cneter position). But I just can't wrap my head around the behaviour of the two faders in conjunction - espcially because I get a completely dry signal when the "dry/wet offset" is at -100%, even if the instrument's "dry/wet" is at 100% wet. If this was just a series of two crossfades, then that should give me silence, right?

I'd be very grateful for a thurrow explanatino or even a scematic ofthe sigal flow.

All the best and thanks in advance

Sandrew

Posted on Fri, Aug 06 2021 13:53
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

Hi Sandrew,

The answer is much simpler than you might expect. :-) It's not a question of signal flow, more a question of parameter logic. 

1. The actual dry/wet ratio in MIR is _always_ set on the Icon level, i.e. for individual sound sources.

2. The Global Offset fader in the Output panel is just that: A relative change of the value set in 1., valid for _all_ Icons on the stage. The basic idea is to keep it at center position (i.e. zero percent offset) unless you think that an otherwise readily set-up project is "too wet" or "too dry": Then this fader is the quick fix. But of course there is not more than "100% wet" or less than "0% wet", for obvious reasons! For keeping track what's actually going on it's smarter to select all (or groups of) Icons and change the ratio directly, making use of the temporary linking offered by MIR. 

3. Dry Solo and Wet Solo in the Output panel work on a global level, too. They won't change relative levels, that's why they are highly useful for a lot of less obvious tasks, too, e.g. the export of dry and wet stems, and so on. 

I'll attach a very rough draft of MIR's signal flow, too (there might be some smaller inaccuracies, but the global concept should be coherent).

HTH,

Dietz attached the following image(s):
MIR_Flow_Diagram_Sketch_8_U002721.jpg (55kb) downloaded 15 time(s).

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/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Aug 07 2021 15:53
by Sandrew
Joined on Fri, Nov 01 2019, Basel, Posts 18

Hey Dietz

thanks for your answer and the diagram. So if I understand correctly, the "dry/wet offset" acts as a modifier of all the instruments "dry/wet" parameters. That makes sense to me.

What does not make sense to me is, that I seem to be able to offset all instruments in the direction of "dry" (event when an instrument is on 100% wet, I get a dry signal if I push the global offset to -100% (all dry). The other way round this does not work at all: I totally dry instrument stays fully dry, even with the global offset set to +100% (all wet). So somehow your answer makes sense to me for the left half of the global dry/wet offset fader (-100%-0%), but not really for it's right half. Can you elaborate on this behaviour?

Thanks a lot

Sandrew

Posted on Sat, Aug 07 2021 16:29
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 316

Originally Posted by: Sandrew Go to Quoted Post

What does not make sense to me is, that I seem to be able to offset all instruments in the direction of "dry" (event when an instrument is on 100% wet, I get a dry signal if I push the global offset to -100% (all dry). The other way round this does not work at all: I totally dry instrument stays fully dry, even with the global offset set to +100% (all wet).

Think of the global offset as a scaler. If you have 0% wetness you have nothing to scale.

Posted on Sun, Aug 08 2021 10:24
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

Hi Sandrew,

The Global Offset is indeed a scaler (much as Pixelpoet1985 pointed out in his answer above), but for MIR Pro's wet signal component only.

This means: 

When an Instrument's Dry/Wet ratio sits at the default center position (0.50), the Global Offset will have the same effect as the Instrument's ratio slider (i.e. an offset of -100% will lead to a completely dry*) output signal, an offset of +100% to a fully wet one).

When the Instrument is set to fully wet (which doesn't make much sense anyway, in most cases), the scaling of the Global Offset will turn off the wet signal component at -100%, while the dry signal is left untouched. An offset of +100% will in fact double the volume of the wet signal component, i.e. raise its volume by 6 dB.

As soon as the Instrument's ratio set to fully dry, there is no wet signal that can be increased any more, thus the Global Offset will indeed have no effect on the Instrument's output signal.

I hope that this answers your question, :-)

*) .... mind you: "Dry" in MIR Pro's way of thinking is not the same as "Bypassed/Unprocessed", but it means "Readily positioned, but without any reflections from the room".

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Aug 10 2021 09:03
by Sandrew
Joined on Fri, Nov 01 2019, Basel, Posts 18

Hey Pixelpoet and Dietz

So the global offset is a multiplier of every instrument's individual dry/wet ratio with a factor between 0 and 2. That makes sense to me. Understanding the exact mechanics gives me more confidence in fiddling around with the two controls. :) Thanks a lot for your explanations!

Sandrew

Posted on Tue, Aug 10 2021 09:08
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

You're welcome! :-) Enjoy MIR Pro.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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