What? Is it a joke? How eLicenser USB key can be useful when server will be down (sooner or later)? Without a server we won't be able to manage licenses, nor add something new.

I would say that better for VSL would be to take Spitfire Audio move and make own licensing system. iLok isn't future.

Still didn't get an answer from VSL Support - what can I do with two VEPro server licenses on one cloud in a dongle-free environment? Please answer! Or I should rethink of team's capability to work with customers.

P.S. When our money is a target, company knows how to talk, but when inconveniences occurred, then it's our problem only.

It's wealthy to think that :) Therefore we receive not only good sample libraries, but also inconvenience that is the result of arrogance :)

Okay, I will contact support team, but I'm sure I'm not only one who stuck on this inconvenience. I feel I use VEPro less than it was year before iLok.

This is how I did on my setup - iLok Cloud used on main computer, but eLicenser version (VEPro and all libraries) used on server.

I could ask -

1) So why this move to iLok? If only for antipiracy, then all our bank accounts also should switch to iLok. In the time when Cubase goes dongle-free, you pushed us to use another dongle. Any dongle is already pirated - you can do nothing to avoid this. If someone build fortress, another one will do anything to destroy it (just for fun). It's a question of time.

2) What will happen when eLicenser server will go down? Will we be able to use eLicenser versions? Maybe, but not managing them if for example we reinstall system. So this again pushes to switch to iLok. This inconvenience cuts freedom that needed for mind and muse.

In general, I could agree to use iLok, but please add a possibility a) to activate server licenses on disk, not only on stick and cloud or b) to transfer at least server licenses to another account (it is disabled now).

Don't push to search for pirated versions. I didn't use "try-before-buy" offers since going serious into industry many years back. This is the loyalty and friendship. Sadly - it's one way.

This is the fastest way to lose customers.

Who cares? One more or less...

Hi, Ben!

Thank you for your reply and jump into this problem. I hope we can discuss longer than "best wishes" sounds.

If I activate iLok Cloud on main computer, I cannot activate it on server at the same time. If I don't activate Cloud on server, I cannot use server license on it. So, I cannot use two servers at a time.

I would like to create another account for server and send my second server license to it, but I'm not allowed to do that - server licenses are not transferable.

In case you need more clarification, feel free to ask here. Don't send me to the support since they didn't help me (us) right after this move to iLok.

Best, Arthur.

Hi!

Just a quick resume for this year's biggest happenings.

1) Steinberg Activation system: 3 computers can use 1 license on all products. It goes dongle free.

2) Native Instruments allow 2 computers to use one license on all products. It is dongle free.

3) Spitfire Audio allow 2 computers to use one license on all products that use dedicated player otherwise libraries are for Kontakt player. Spitfire player is dongle free.

Anyone here can add to this list the software they use, but at the end I will put this:

N) VSL jumped from one dongle type to another. Even more - I have two server licenses, but I can use only one at a time just because if VSL would allow to activate server licenses on computer (not dongle or multiuser cloud), then "someone of course will steal product".

Interesting how Steinberg, Native Instruments and Spitfire Audio get to conclusion to "allow of stealing their products" and just go dongle free zone? Are their programs and libraries less important in the industry than VSL's?

And no - in a dongle free setup I won't like to buy new dongle. It's 55 euros. For what? For inconvenience? I would not take it for free just because it's too oldish for today.

Long time gone since last reply here. Also Paul is silent :(

So, Petri, did you buy a bunch of iLok keys?

BTW, every company is going dongle-free, but we here need to buy iLok keys. Is this a future like 10-20 years back?

Hi!

Just reinstalled my laptop and have installed everything I have from VSL, but when I start Synchron Player v197, it shows only Free libraries that was activated in iLok by dragging licenses to computer. But when I run VEPro7 server, it opened iLok Cloud after which also Synchron Player also showed all the libraries I have in cloud.

Probably it's because only VEPro7 server asked to allow internet connection through firewall?

Hi!

This issue was in previous build and now it does the same - removes downloaded installation package after successful installation process. It does despite of active option "Keep downloaded library data". I understand that executable installations are not "library data", but I remember that first versions of Vienna Assistant (maybe erroneously) kept downloaded installations as well as library data.

It would be nice to have an option "Keep downloaded packages" even these are library data or installations. Or second option to differentiate things - "Keep downloaded installations".

Some users (like me) have more than one computer in studio, but sometimes internet connection is slow. It's good to have installations downloaded once and stored in local media.

Those are features of free software, not professional. It's like free software developers are too lazy to do more helpful things and pointed to use core features of operational system.

Then why we have Open Server Project if it can be dragged in using Finder or Windows Explorer? Imagine they spent at least 10 minutes to add such feature - File -> Open. Bet here I'm asking to unhide existing menu item. It would take less than 10 seconds.

By the way Thank you. Very helpful.

So no one can answer - If we start VEPro server, it is empty. We need to add one instance just to have Instance menu available and then can open saved Project (not Server Project, but Instance named Project). So why not to allow Instance menu with commands that allow to open and create new?

Even more - If we create new Instance just to have a list of previously saved Instances (project, not Server Projects), then after selecting Project from recent list or folder, VEPro is asking do we need to save existing Instance. Why? It is empty and created just to have menu item accessible. I see this very very stupid.

There are also another little bugs, but they are not so significant and can stay where they are comparing to this mess.

Bill, I'm talking about Project not Server Project. The Project open command is in Instance menu (that is hidden while there is no Instance added), not File menu.

Hi!

We all get accustomed - Server Project have many instances and every instance is Project or many projects merged into one. It's okay whatever they are named. At least everything works!

1) But why we cannot open Project in empty VEPro? We need to add an empty instance which will be automatically closed before loading Project. Maybe there should be a button right after "+" sign on program's desktop that depicts the project opening? Now it's a mess - you create instance just to have Instance menu available where is "Open Project" command. But by opening project program always create an instance if you didn't choose Merge. 

2) Is Instance a Project of Is Project an Instance? None of two or both :) So moving on to meet the next versions maybe there can be a temporary merge of many projects and also saved as .vep64, but just have an information which .vep64 are included in project (instance). In such version of Project there could be a list of Projects merged in Instances (Project)... See, how strange is that we need to mention both just not to mess on then. Otherwise I don't see a real purpose why such naming used. And I know others are wondering too.

It sounds like "to fill gas in car, you should close all windows".
Thank you very much, but I see any software other way than a trash. It means that if Close operation is executed, it should exit. If something is modified, it should ask for saving changes. On any answer only if success it should exit. Period.

Yes, Steinberg and VSL programmers are too lazy to understand the flow customers are working in.
They are working for us, not we for them.
This isn't first time I state this and I'm not the only one who see this arrogative attitude.

Hi!

Using latest VEPro - 7.1.1298.

Is it a bug or something else? When in Windows 10 I click on X (close window) and answer Yes to question "do you want to save changes?" (even no changes was made), VEPro doesn't quit. It saves again the project and stay active. Then I click X again and answer No - it quits immediately.

1. Should VEPro offer to save project if there was no changes made?

2. Should VEPro stay active if Close command executed?

No, Jonathan, Petri wrote that it would be nice if licenses could be bound to a computer as it is with many licenses for plugins.

But now you will need to buy 12 iLok dongles to run your 12 servers. Congratulations, sorry! This is the cost for the move. It will cost you some 650 euros.

Yes, now - after hours of digging and fighting I installed old pre-iLok VEPro versions (7.0.1120) on both machines, but I leave libraries as iLok versions. And I tested - all is working great - updated libraries are loading correctly in updated Synchron Player (1.2.1120) while servers are old (7.0.1120).

Probably VSL will correct all bugs soon, but I'm not ready to be beta tester. I spent two days to do nothing but just testing what works and what doesn't.

And again... "iLok inconveniences *legit* customers", but who cares?! The goal is to prevent hundred pirates to do things while thousands feel inconvenience.

Yes, you can use iLok cloud on one machine and iLok dongle on second machine. It's correct. All my post is about inconvenience.

But we still not talking about big problems - no one will convert your server projects to work with new version.

Okay, Paul, all is clear, but there are inconvenience you really don't want to understand or ignore.

In a version of one eLicenser dongle many users were able to run any library and soft without internet. Right? Now it's gone. If they use iLok Cloud they need an internet connection to start VEPro7.

The phrase "now all computers are connected" won't work in many cases. So many of us are pressed to buy iLok dongle. As I wrote - then why this move? eLicenser was working great for years. But if one company is going to get rid of dongles, then another company entangles nets deeper with dongle system. If your company has good programmers who made such great players and libraries, why they don't made autonomous licensing system like Steinberg did, like SpitfireAudio have for years???

I understand that you are tired of me, but please take it serious...

About your point "Machine-based licensing is not safe enough for our niche product. It would be cracked within minutes.", please open Google and type "crack iLok". Probably you will be surprised. So if someone need to get any software for free, he can get it in many ways. Less than a minute!

Here is the excerpt from post in KVRaudio forum:

"If you are using iLok now, you are losing business. I, and many like me, will never ever buy your product. iLok inconveniences your *legit* customers. It does nothing to prevent piracy, any decent cracker can crack iLok protected code and any idiot can find cracks online. If we purchase your software, it's because we believe in supporting companies and doing the right thing. It's not because we have to because of your obsolete technology choices. All iLok does is make my life more difficult should I choose your product, and with all the fantastic new plugin companies that don't use it, I don't need to put up with that."

So please work with customers, not with pirates! They were, are and will be always. As I said if there is one wise man who invented uncrackable system, there will be ten or hundreds the same wise people who can crack it. The excerpt tells everything - "iLok inconveniences your *legit* customers".

I understand that the truth is in both sides, but you and your team should know how inconvenient can be this move for some (probably for many) of your customers.

As long as it will be possible I will use old VEPro7 v7.0 version on my server, while using iLok cloud on main computer. This works for me because server holds BBCSO, huge Kontakt libs etc, not VSL.

So thank you for your patience, Paul. My respect to you, but take a look on Google search results. Sometimes you have to be able to stop and see your mistakes. (not your's, but company's).

Thank you, Paul.

I understood from your first reply that I need iLok key. I don't have any and in case we are going to reach dongle-free setup I really don't want to buy one. Otherwise I don't see it serious to switch from one dongle to another.

I have two eLicenser dongles and all was working well.

Why VSL licenses are not available to activate on machine? Otherwise the term "cloud" cannot be applied to this pseudo cloud, because it's just a pocket. With a "cloud" in computer technology we understand a controlled access by multiple users from anywhere. In case of software licensing there could be only a check of which computer can access which library or software. As it logically should be.

I would like to buy another BBO library for 65 euros, not paying 55 euros for iLok dongle to use it in "dongle-free" setup.

I reinstalled previous version of VEPro7 on my slave computer and now everything is working as before. All dongles are connected and I'm ready to compose on pseudo-dongle-free setup.

P.S. One little bug in new VEPro7 (version 7.1) - if I load a server project saved with version 7.0 and there were used Vienna Matrix Mixer Pro, it isn't recognized.

I would like to state that this thread is about the dongle-free problem that occurs in my studio, not about the Kontakt and piracy.

I hope Paul will read all unread replies here.

In addition - both my "Vienna Ensemble Pro 7" licenses are not transferrable to another account. So this is the answer to my very first question. (Thanks!)

So at this point I really don't understand how I can use both of my VEPro7 licenses. Very logical would be if I could use the same cloud from both my computers and this way iLok Manager could control which computer uses what.

It seems that it would be very logical to allow activate licenses on all available media including computer itself (now it is only dongle and cloud).

Okay, but Spitfire Audio? No dongles, no internet, no no no... I never heard about pirated Spitfire Audio libraries.

I use everything legal (EVERYTHING!!!), but I see in internet everything is available as "try before buy". So with any protection developers just playing with real and serious users, but not fighting against piracy. I'm programmer and I know how to debug a compiled program and do reverse engineering just to get a protocol or operation flow inside program. If someone create a protection, there will be another bunch of wise people who can do reverse. Sadly, but this is reality.

This "dongle-free" movement is just a marketing trick.

BTW my next question will be: can I install previous versions and use eLicenser? I suppose no, because Steinberg will kill eLicenser server after everything will be dongle-free.

So no one answered to my question - can I create second account and transfer server license using iLok Manager? With current iLok Cloud policy they (VSL) thought that everything from VSL is running on one machine - server, but main computer just load non-licensable plugin. I think better would be if server would run without a license, but it controls who is connecting - is there on that machine a server user license. Otherwise why server is controlling the count of connected users?

No one can tell me how I can use dongle-free software without internet. If I disconnect network cable, in next 5 seconds I have message about everything goes off and my dongle-free dream falls into ocean of disappointments.

Lot of misunderstandings from me, lot of questions, lot of disappointments and I understand that there is no way to reach my happiness. If I could know that I never bought anything from VSL. But the sound is gorgeous! Better than overcompressed English libraries.

Thank you, Paul, for the reply!

The video explains a lot. But if those are all options then this move to iLok don't get us rid of dongles, because in my situation I should buy dongle to run two VEPro servers. Also there can be another situation: use libraries in master computer, but server on slave computer to load more bigger libraries, such as BBC SO by SpitfireAudio. With iLok cloud I cannot manage this. I can run all licenses in one computer.

And if I don't have internet instantly in studio, then I cannot run anything without dongles. Right? iLok Cloud don't run without internet even cloud was activated on computer where I want to run server. And I cannot move licenses between iLok Cloud and iLok dongle without internet.

So again - dongles, zero downtimes...

How Native Instruments are managing their product licenses? No dongles, no clouds, install on two computers, no internet needed when all is set up.

So my question - can I create second account to use on server and transfer server license to it? (wasn't answered). Additionally - can I register second iLok account in VSL profile (and should I do that?)?

Some pro say - computer for music isn't for internet... (in case if we are pro).

I already did that. Everything installed on both machines. The cloud is one for the account. I can activate it only on one computer even it contains two VEPro licenses. Those licenses cannot be activated per machine, only in a cloud. It would be normal if server can be activated per machine, not in cloud. It's a server, not library. Steinberg allows to activate new dongle-free softs on multiple machines using the same account.

I'm a bit disappointed.

Hi!

Successfully transferred licenses to iLok world. Everything works great, but probably I have misunderstood something...

I have two VEPro7 licenses just to run one on my laptop and second on my desktop. Having two Steinberg dongles I managed that one dongle has one license. But the user/account was the same.

Now I have both licenses in one cloud and can activate cloud only on one computer.

So my analytic mind tells me that I should create another iLok account and transfer second license of VEPro7 to it.

Is this the only way or is there something else to do?