Wait, is this "Epic" music? I only want Epic music!

LOL..just kidding. What a treasure this music is and how it stands as a testament against the mediocrity that is so prevalent in film music of today!

A related anecdote. Someone I know (who is not into classical music and does not profess to know about music in general) told me that he recently got into 'epic' music. I pointed to him that classical music is the real epic music and asked if he has listened to it. He said he has heard some pieces and found classical music boring. I promised to take him to a concert that will change his mind.

The next month, I took home to a free concert at the New England Conservatory in Boston. The youth orchestra there played a Mozart piano concerto,  'Barber's symphony no 1' and Rachmaninoff's 'Isle of the dead'...two pieces that are as epic as it can get. And that was my first time listening to that Barber piece, what a piece of music that was...21 minutes of genius.

He was simply blow away and even stunned! He said that he never knew that there was this kind of a sound posisble. Here is a person who had minimal knowledge of music, was only exposed to HZ and other epic orchestral (indeed locomotive) crap on YT, and he could instantly be moved by Mozart when hearing it live and even complex pieces like Barbers Symphony 1. He swore this would be just the beginning of his concert experience (btw he was someone who I had lots of disagreements professionally, and is not easily swayed by what I say)

I've had this experience with many friends of such minimal musical background. They come with fresh and curious ears and I think there is something about live performance that is so uniquely engaging, but is unfortunately diminishing in our modern digital world. People do not have time to go to live concerts anymore and only listen to audio in their little phones.

So my mission is to proselytize 'real' orchestral music as much as possible. 

Anand 

Thank you Andi!

Hi Andi,

I had a related question.

Will the cubase VSL expression maps respond to notations in the Cubase score editor, like hairpin/fp, pp etc., for dynamics and articulations such as slurs or sfz etc.,?  

I hope my question makes sense.

Thanks

Anand

Hi Andi,

thank you for the suggestion. I tried it and it somewhat helps.

However I think there is a fundamental issue with my Sibelius....some setting that I clicked by mistake....that is causing this problem. I hope to fix this without having to mess with the patches themselves as I like to use them as it is.

Hopfully I'll figure this out or someone else encountered a similar issue can help.

Thank you

Anand

Oh I didnt realize that. Now I can see the live duration option. Thank you Andi!

The legato problem seems to be solved by extending the note durations, but this makes it quite painful since I would need to do extensive editing. I was wondering if there was something different about the AS legato samples (compared to OS) that it requires longer durations to achieve legato?

Thank you again

Anand

Thank you Andi.

Indeed this is mysterious. I have tried everything I could think of, even reinstalling Sibelius, opening a fresh template. For some resaon legato doesnt work with appassionata.

to add to my troubles, the Inspector in Sibelius does not show 'live duration' option at all under the Playback tab, so that I could not try what you suggested.

Best

Anand

Thank you, Paul.

Hello Andi,

I am having a weird issue using Sibelius with Appassionata strings.

I have my standard setup with Sibelius soundset and the Vienna house style loaded. I also selected the right instruments for the sibelius track, i..e Violin I [VSL Appassionata] etc.,. 

The problem is that when I use a slur to indicate legato, I see that the right patch is selected in the VI interface during playback, but the sound is not legato and is more like detache, i.e., the notes are separated. However when I play that track with the keyboard, the sound is legato! So the problem appears to be mainly from Sibelius.

This problem disappears if I use the Orchestral strings and the notes are smoothly connected.

To be clear, the correct patch is being triggered in the VI interface, just the sound is not correct.

I was wondering if you had any thoughts about what could be wrong?

Thanks for any input.

Best

Anand

Hello,

I just got the AS full library but have a lot of (possibly naive) questions that I hope can get answered:

1. How do I activate the performance trill for different trill intervals...for eg.., minor vs major second trills from Sibelius? Is this patch mainly for playing through the keyboard or can it be triggered from software?

2. What is the difference between 'perf_legato' (standard library) and 'perf_legato_4vel' (extended lib.). Is the latter consist of more recorded velocity layers? I found it difficult to distinguish the sounds from these two. Is there in general more layers in the extended library compared to the standard for the other articulations?

3. In the list of patches, there is also a VIOLINS 2 (..VI-20 vs VI-20B)? Are these separately recorded for use as second violins?

Thank you

Anand

Thank you all for the advice.

Its not really that I "need" something, since I do music mainly as a hobby. So I try to balance my desire to get everything with my own progress in learning to use these sounds. I like the entire range of chamber to flim scores. So ideally I would like to have both AS and DS.

I do have the standard edition of the Cube, but what prompted me to look for better string sounds was that I was disappointed with the Orchestral strings. While the performance aspects are simply outstanding (I mean, legato, repettions etc.,), the strings tend to sound synthy in the high end and especially so in my speakers. (This is a mystery ..why do they sound better in headphones than in open speakers?). 

I then bought AS and indeed it sounds much better, even at the highest frequencies! I am now wondering about the DS.

And Dietsz and MMKA make it hard for me not to give DS a try ;)

Cheers

Anand

hahaha I knew someone would say that.

I got the AS and really happy but now wondering about the DS. This is an addiction. 

Thanks anyways for the input!

Anand

Hello,

with the ongoing sale on VI instruments, I am debating between purchasing Appassionata strings vs Dimension.  I understand that the AS have a more lush sound than the Orchestral strings as they have more instruments/section. giving a more cinematic sound. 

I see that the dimensions strings have fewer instruments. While I like the modular capabilities of this library, I am also concerned that the sound may not be as lush as the AS. I am personally not a fan of the orchestral striings (one reason I looked toward AS), as they do not sound so good at the high frequencies, and are rather thin and tend to be synthy. The AS seem more realistic sounding probably because they have more instruments.

As someone who can afford to get only one of these for now, I wanted to know if users of these two libraries have a perspective or advice on which one they would recommend, pros and cons etc.,.

Thanks for any advice

Anand

Hi William,

you knew this would catch my attention didnt you ?;)

I am so glad you like Hubble's images and that wrote music to it. Without the Hubble we wouldn't know our place in the universe today. (For those in the forum who didn't know, the Hubble showed us for the first time that a tiny fuzz in the sky was actually another galaxy with a trillion stars...the andromeda, and it also showed that there are a trillion other galaxies like ours or even bigger).

I have always felt that classical composers lived out there in space. Well, let me try to explain....I mean that in two ways. First, classical music has such an incredible range of tonal and textural variety that captures the grandeur and intricacy of the cosmos. One of my favorite things is to watch the night sky while hearing The Planets. Second, classical music is as structred and organized as scientific logic (I like to say that the western orchestra is just pure engineering except its is also an art form). This is not just the case with pieces like The Planets but with the works of almost all great composers. Sibelius comes to my mind immediately. I am pretty sure he is from another planet:)

Now, about your music. Its absolutely beautiful. I am relishing it....both composition and the production. I couldnt tell this was not a live performance. I see elements of Holst, Ravel and Debussy in this piece. I am not capable of describing it in words any more than that, just listening is enough for me. I hope this gets performed. Thank you again for writing this and hope you write more for the planets and continue to "live" in space !:)

-Anand

This sounds so good. Thank you for sharing this Bill!

-Anand 

Originally Posted by: Paul McGraw

Originally Posted by: agitato

Originally Posted by: Paul McGraw

Now, young people are taught to hate western civilization and everything it stood for. I could rant on about this for days on end. But in the case of music, how can anyone expect anything other than stuff called music that reflects the values (or lack of values) of the modern world?

Sorry to say, I think there is a contradiction in your statements. Isn't the so called 'modern world' attributed largely  to  'western civilization'...planes, trains, automobiles, capitalism...and the corporate music Errikos referred to? Let alone that it was a pure coincidence of history that all this happend in the so called 'western world'? 

Yet you say that young people are taught to hate this 'western civilization' whereas I would think it is quite the opposite. Or perhaps you are referring to something else by 'western civilization'.

Anand

You are referring to technology and inventions. Not culture. 

Paul McGraw

Ok, but eveyone is following 'western culture' these days. So I am still not sure what your point is. I hope it is not "no one is following "western culture" thats why the music is pretty bad" 

Originally Posted by: Paul McGraw

Now, young people are taught to hate western civilization and everything it stood for. I could rant on about this for days on end. But in the case of music, how can anyone expect anything other than stuff called music that reflects the values (or lack of values) of the modern world?

Sorry to say, I think there is a contradiction in your statements. Isn't the so called 'modern world' attributed largely  to  'western civilization'...planes, trains, automobiles, capitalism...and the corporate music Errikos referred to? Let alone that it was a pure coincidence of history that all this happend in the so called 'western world'? 

Yet you say that young people are taught to hate this 'western civilization' whereas I would think it is quite the opposite. Or perhaps you are referring to something else by 'western civilization'.

Anand

As always, I am totally with you on this.

If I can offer any help towards your depression and exasperation at the current state of music, perhaps this will be a refreshing breath of air?....

The "Siren sounds waltz" by the 14 year child prodigy Alma Deuscher (actual music starts around 2:50, unless you want to listen to her intro): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0xMpLXQNvM&list=PLVn-hJ6Izu5NFfAsBx0KiST2mF0AcC3Ue&index=20&t=0s

I think this is pretty remarkable music for a person of that age, or maybe of any age, if we include all the crap music out there. She gives me so much hope for the future.

Anand 

Originally Posted by: leigh

I believe Steinberg and VSL are in a dialog about expression maps for Dorico 3.

**Leigh

Oh is that true? I thought VSL were too busy at the moment and it wont be a while before we see soundsets (or expression maps is hte better term?) for Dorico.

Hi Eric,

okay aside from this, if I can ask, how are you managing the expression mapping from Dorico to VSL...did you make your own maps? That is another big question for me as to how to use VSL from Dorico without a sequencer. Otherwise I dont see a point in switching other than getting pretty scores which I dont care about.

if you have a way of solving the expression map (until when VSL can release a Dorico specific soundsets) that would be very helpful.

Thanks 

Anand

I just started listening to the cello concerto and like it as well! I am yet to listen fully. The opening is far more sunny and cheerful than the violin concerto.

I appreciate your input, and glad Dorico worked for you, but I stand by my original post.

Here is another example of the struggle. I gave Dorico another try. First off it is absurd why I need to do shift+N to do note entering. In Sibelius its s simple "D". 

And to transpose in Sibelius its contr+up/down arrow  while in Dorico it is Alt+Ctrl+up/down arrow. Why that extra Alt if I may ask? Seems very dumb to me. I can imagine that when writing big scores this will be a tremendous waste ot time. I do not fancy pressing complex key patterns. Simplicity is the key. But Dorico makes writing on paper seem worthwhile.

btw for some reason when I did try Alt+Ctrl+up arrow the entire score becomes upside down! no transpose or anything. A very fancy software indeed! Does everything except help me write music faster.

Ah, nice bit of history there. Actually I havent come to the third movement yet. Cant wait to hear it now. Will check out the cello concerto as well!

That was well put Mike.

What a line up of composers there...Errikos, William and Mike Hewer...I love this forum where I can banter with serious composers and ask amateurish questions. like the one below:

I wonder what you think about John Williams' violin concerto, and where you would place it in the 20th century music literature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi3ECEzyfAY

To my naive ears, this sounds atonal. I can barely make out a tonal center or melody....(even more remarkable given JW is one of the great melody makers of Hollywood.) But would you also consider this "atonal"? The Rozsa piece surely has a tonal center and quite a few beautiful melodies.

I find this piece to be an interesting contrast from Rozsa although I immensly enjoy both of the. Both were film composers but fully trained in the classical tradition. But why does William's music sound so different...is it just the few decades that separated them?  I didnt go to music school and am really curious what you think. It is also interesting to me that JW would not choose to write a more populist piece for his concert works. Its as if he didnt have to answer to anyone and was purely driven by his artistic vision.

(btw The one sure difference between the two is JW is alive, and I have "met" him....it was when he was leaving after a BSO concert. I was a few inches away but too embarassed to even get an autograph.)

Anand

Dave, agreed. I toned it down a bit and changed the post title too.

little less angry now as I am distracted by other stuff.