Wow is right! I'm amazed to see VSL tell us in advance. I love the transparency!

Every other week I tempt my wallet on the recorders and VEP. But I don't know if I can hold out on voices. It's very needed in the sampling world, especially to be done right. And I trust VSL to do voices more than what I've seen from other companies. I find word builders generally very unconvincing. Storm Choir actually has a fairly believable 'alternating quasi-word thingy'. I would love a similar option with VSL voices. But I do like the soprano choir as is currently. It's just as useful either way IMO.

Very exciting!

-Sean

This is harsh, but honest. I won't give anyone my money until Steinberg's upcoming notation software is done.

I own Notion, but it's far behind other notation programs. That's being modest. Cubase is still faster to compose in for sequencer work and Sibelius/Finale are leaps and bounds ahead of Notion for engraving and making your performers happy. Furthermore... Notion failed me while Steinberg has served me well for years. And Sibelius is the easiest notation program out there. Two of the greatest software teams, both of which I use as they serve orchestral composing better than anyone else IMO, are working on something better together now. What more could I ask for? It's a dream come true.

1) Compose in notation as easily and as fast as in a sequencer.

2) Quality and realistic mock-ups with less effort

3) As much automation over engraving work as possible to save time... while still having user control.

These things have seriously lacked in every other notation program... and this is what Steinberg is looking to accomplish. I'm not investing my time in learning and committing to something that is still behind the Sibelius/Finale offerings. With something better on its way, it makes even less sense.

-Sean

Then there's me who prefers riding the train.

-Sean

Hey everyone, BachRules just joined in the debate. Get him!! lol

I actually think I missed the point before. You can change the timing threshold for start samples in Vi Pro... meaning, the time it takes before the first sample in a RR series is triggered again. That's what he was talking about before based on the context of our conversation. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that's what he referred to as I had looked at that option before posting.

Does that make sense?

-Sean

BachRules,

The volume of the legato transitions cannot be adjusted in VI or VI Pro. It would be nice and that relates to our discussion, but I would say that most VSL features make up for it very nicely :)

-Sean

William,

Asking VSL to add functionality that most libraries have doublefold isn't an attempt to be irritating. Not accepting your work arounds, which create multiple other problems for me, is not an attempt to be irritating. I am simply trying to address my own needs. I'm sorry I offended you. I did the adult thing and apologized and moved forward. I hope we can all promote that level of respect.

I don't own the entire VSL library so I cannot be sure of the results you've observed. But in my Cubase session which is currently running, I get a different result. The Sustain patch and Legato patch are different recordings. I tried every combination of start notes, repetition notes, etc. Nothing matches. The patches are very noticeabely different. Furthermore, when playing the exact same passage, but switching from Staccato to Sustain, I get an unusual blare. With a full x-fade, the sustain patch has considerably more blare than the legato patch. Adjusting the cross fade and volume to compensate produce undesireable results. In any case, it takes me more work and the result is not satisfactory or consistent.

-Sean

Thanks... personally, I prefer most just to have disabling it for a patch, but I can also see why the global option similar to x-fade settings is a nice touch for people's unique setups. On a side note: other libraries have been adding faders for legato transitions to control volume. That hasn't been that important to me, but with how much control VSL has enabled for users it would be a nice touch as well. Technically, even that alone could solve my issue if it could be controlled via CC. I'd still prefer the patch option so I would have less to do, but either option (or more options in this area) sounds good.

-Sean

DG,

Well for starters I am very willing to apologize for my own attitude here. I have been heated, upset, and honestly completely frustrated with this thread. I do welcome diverse opinions... but conditionally. If you are contributing something productive I welcome it. Your work-around suggestions were constructive. Thank you. I have stated that they are not useful to me. More specifically, that as a matter of difinitive fact, real human beings would not perform something a certain way... for certain articulations at least. So am I being definitive, yes, but only as it applies to certain circumstances. Am I trying to suggest that this apply to all patches and that there are no exceptions to this? No. I'm only trying to say that the software should play something as a performer would. I'm not saying that all performers and all articulations play the same way. I hope that clarifies.

In any case, thanks for putting up with me. I hope this can get "added" as an option at very least.

-Sean

DG.

1) I can take out any instrument, play staccato, then legato and it would be a very natural performance. And fyi, French Horns can't play spiccato. Going from a staccato note to legato makes PERFECT sense and is ABSOLUTELY common on a WIDE variety of instruments.

2) The transition note simply shouldn't be played if it's not something a performer WOULD EVER do. From staccato to legato... they wouldn't.

I'm honestly sick of this discussion. The only reason I keep defending my point isn't to be argumentative, but because I don't want VSL to read the commentary and not act on this because of what you guys are saying. Disagreements are a waste of time. If you will not contribute a USEFUL way to improve the software in relation to the topic I have introduced, then please respect my request and keep the disagreement to yourself. I welcome contributing ideas which build or establish a new function which helps. I don't welcome people cutting down or disagreeing with an idea that has application. And furthermore, if you can't see the application... then it doesn't hurt you to leave it alone. Where as it DOES hurt me to disagree. This feature could help me. PLEASE leave it alone.

Dear VSL,

You have my "feature request"/bug/whatever... please act on it. My faith in VSL practically died in this forum, but I've reminded myself I haven't been talking to VSL staff this entire time. I have a glimmer of hope that someone can respect this enough to do it and not argue about something a musician would never do. Please make this change. My Kontakt instruments are very capable of this. I simply want VSL to follow suit so I don't have to deal with the playback or this discussion ever again.

Please do something.

With respect, and a bit of hope...

-Sean

Sure, a feature every other library I own has. Hopefully VSL will follow suit.

Although ironically, I also wish every other library I own was in VI Pro. I'm sure we can at least agree on that! lol

-Sean

It should also be mentioned that at the same cross-fade settings as legato, the patch blares heavily on a horn. So I now not only have to jimmy rig the articulation choice to get it to work... but I have to make further adjustments to the cross fade, otherwise it sounds pretty awful. Yet more work I have to do which is all unnecessary if I use my other libraries.

My goal is to have all my libraries working together. I can copy a part from one instrument to another if needed. As it stands, every library works just fine... except for VSL. Like I said, I love VSL... so I'm not trying to paint a bad picture here. I'm simply illustrating that there are workflows in which this creates a problem. If you really want me to put an MP3 up here with a screenshot I'd be happy to. But again, does it take that much effort just to have something heard and changed? If that's the case, I'm not the one painting a bad picture on this forumn at all. Quite the contrary.

-Sean

For the record, I don't want anyone to read that post and think I prefer Kontakt. It's a decent tool and all. But VI-Pro is hands-down the best sampler out there. I simply want a tweak added.

-Sean

"It is like a real human being would" ...On the condition of which articulation you are playing, you are correct. However, I actually like to staccatos and legatos right after each other. Pretty wild!

I just switched from staccato to legato in a Kontakt-based library I own. It played it right! It's a miracle! lol

VSL is great. I love the library. I respect the team. I'm simply offering a suggestion for an improvement which can be made. Maybe you don't want it. I do. It's pretty simple. Let's leave it at that.

-Sean

Here's a thought...

Maybe if I notate some staccato notes then a legato passage immediately following it... it could play it like a real human being would.

-Sean

DG,

I'm sorry. I mean no hard feelings. However, every solution here assumes I either missed something or that there is a solution... yet those solutions are jimmy-rigged instead of a fix which would not conflict with any other variable to this problem.

Due to the nature of those variables, which are inevitable in the software world, and due to the playback of the software not working as it should... It is what I would call a "missing feature" instead of a request. In my world, that is a bug. I have tested software for bugs and am well versed in the difference between a feature and a bug. So I understand where you are coming from completely. I believe that companies miss the mark when they treat 'missing features' as feature requests and not bugs... because user experience is far more important than most companies give weight. I also believe that those that do are far more successful than those that don't. In any case, the problem is recognized and I appreciate your respectul reply.

-Sean

William,

First, I have realized how unfair I've been on a couple points. Be warned- not much infurates me more than when someone refuses to accept that I have already worked something out and it hasn't worked for me. So please understand that the reason why I have been 'closed' on this, is because I have already been open in my attempts to resolve this leading up to this point. You have your experiences and I have mine and we won't see eye to eye. Where you clearly see VSL differently than I do, I do not believe we will resolve anything. I'm sure you are very capable. I assure you I am not a noob. I accept our difference, resolvable or not, and wish you well.

Dietz,

I found a different sollution. VE would not work for me the way you described. It's a smart workaround, but not useful for me. Fyi, I tried that exact setup last year without any progress.

My workflow: I use VST expression to make my adjustments. That is part of a greater workflow that cannot change. I will spare the details to avoid another pointless and lengthy discussion about considerations I have already made. Suffice it to say... I need to edit one stave, one track, but with multiple sounds available on that track. Multiple midi channels with muting simply won't work for VST Expression to give me an easily switchable stops setup.

The Solution: However, I now have found that by having every track on the same midi channel and using 2 keyswitches to activate/deactivate the stop... I have the single track for each manual which is easily editable. This certainly took my longer to make then it did to write up this comment... but it works with my setup. That's all I care about.

Thank you for dealing with my frustrations respectfully,

Sean

William,

You're right. Your opinions are inevitably right and mine are wrong. You win.

I've clearly contributed nothing useful to the VSL forum and you have by pointing out how much I clearly don't know what I am talking about.

-Sean

I am switching from staccato TO 8th notes playing a legato phrase. Sustain will not work. End of story. The library is playing what is effectively a glitch.

I forgot why I stopped commenting on the VSL forumns... because everyone thinks there is no room for improvement. If it isn't working as it should... then it will have an adverse affect. A staccato note simply SHOULD NOT have a transition to a legato note... PERIOD.

Is this really that hard to understand? Am I being unreasonable?

-Sean

The reason I get an attitude response is because I don't agree with you and this community is full of attitude. I know as I've dished it out plenty of times. I love VSL this, I love VSL that. That doesn't make the library perfect or as realistic as real players. I'm horribly sorry that I'm trying to request ways to improve performance automatically. I didn't realize that would be shunned to heavily. I tried to be light hearted and friendly. I would suggest that we call calm down and talk about this productively, but I'm fairly sure you guys have made up your mind.

Dietz,

The Organ samples sound beautiful. I am not asking for an organ console, but for the ability to set stops on the fly like you can while playing an organ. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear and I'm sorry if I came off as offensive to your hard work. I simply feel like I spent money on something I can't use the way I would expect. I don't think you did crappy work. I just feel like a software solution to this should have matched the level of quality I expect from VSL.

For the record (please don't argue with me on this, I am simply clarifying)... by dymanically flat, I simply meant that VSL recorded patches to be controlled as opposed to having existing dynamic changes in the playback. I do not own the entire VSL library and I'm sure there are plenty of crecendos, etc. But I want legatos, staccato variations, and a general humanized playback. That is something I have seen other companies addressing in (like Finale, and even some libraries via their articulations... not just some articulations, but all of them).

-Sean

DG,

I like the threshold's default value and don't want to change it for the legato patch. What I want is that when switching from one patch to another, it plays correctly.

I also use the FULL length of a note value, because I am writing for a real orchestra to perform this later on. I need a good mock-up and this is getting notated.

Seriously man, other people have different workflows than yourself. But thanks for replying. I honestly do appreciate the effort. If there are sollutions I am not aware of on this point, I'm open to them. Personally, I consider this more of a bug than a feature.

-Sean

For the record, I bought another string library because...

1) They had a violin II and after using a fake EQ'd Violin II for a year and not being happy with it. (Notice how I used it first)

2) I also bought the library as it wasn't 'dynamically flat'. I love VSL's flexibility, but I needed a 'go-to' option to save time and hassle. I use VSL when it suits, but my core string library now isn't VSL. My core brass and winds are. I also use VSL's solo strings. I would prefer using the string libraries I've paid for, but the problems above, and these here, are why I don't. That is almost the entirety of my reasoning.

Also... After using VSL's Organ, for about a year now, I'm looking at Hauptwerk.

This pattern isn't good for VSL. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE VSL. I'll always use what I consider to be in many ways an unmatched library. I also like the people behind it (which influences my support heavily). I'm simply remarking on areas for improvement. If it CAN be improved, it OUGHT to be. These are among a very small list of flaws in what I consider a nearly perfect library. Unfortunately, they have a huge impact on the core 'playback quality' the library has before you start fine tuning. It should sound good going in, then you fine tune. You shouldn't have to fine tune everything in order to get a base-line performance. The entire reason the Humanize feature exists is for this same reason. So why not simply add one more option to it?

-Sean

DG,

1 - Of course I have. I have given several attempts and made several templtes to try to get it to work simply how it should have in the first place. I'm nearly ready to buy hauptwerk. I like VSL, I like the team behind it. However, this really is a scar on the product line and should be addressed.

2 - Great, is there a way to have VI Pro do it for me automatically? Other libraries can  I don't want a jimmy rig on this. I'm requesting a library change or if a jimmy rig is opted for, then it should be as simple as it is with other libraries. You check a box and it happens.

3 - Crec patches don't apply to legato. My request isn't unfounded given the nature of VSL making their library dynamically flat. I'm not opposed to that, I'm simply asking for a humanize feature. This could apply to staccato velocities as well. I'm talking about creating more authentic performances with ease. If you don't like the suggestion, don't comment on it.

Please understand, I don't mean offense and I know you didn't. I simply feel that if you aren't contributing to something that will actually help me, then you are hurting this feedback, which users have discussed before about VSL. I feel strongly about these features and didn't jump on here in a rush. I have spent time thinking about them and in lieu of working on improving my systematic workflow, these are some of the most important failures within my setup. Very honestly, if these can't be addressed and if another library will... that other library will become my 'go-to' template. VSL, with only one exception, is hands-down the best library IMO. But I'm less interested in a flexible library. That has non-obligatory uses. The most obligatory function of a library is that it sounds natural when it is played. VSL is very capable of that, but only after detailed user input that is often not necessary. VSL has also lead the industry in addressing this, to create the most powerful, flexible, yet easier to use library. I'm a fan. But these are just as essential, if not more, than humanizing the pitch and timing.

I'm perfectly fine if people can't see reason on this.  But in all seriousness, I'm perfectly fine finding other options. With how much competition is growing in the sampling world, my hope is that VSL will continue innovating core sollutions for their library, not reject ideas because they feel that user-created jimmy rigs are viable solutions. They might solve VSL's problem getting me off their back. They don't solve my issues.

-Sean

Please have pity on me and at least hear me out! lol

Organ VST

Seriously, it's needed. I know it's effort and not financially rewarding. But everything about VSL is... right. This isn't.

Library content change

Most libraries provide a fair amount of RR's. I own the basic VSL starters, some extended, plus, and some individual instruments. I have plenty of super short repetitions, but I only have 2 repetitions for the normal staccato patch. I really feel that this should have been included. Or do the full libraries not have more for this specific articulation? I'm happy with VSL. I just wish this one articulation was as versatile as the rest of the articulations in each library I own. It's a serious handicap.

VI Pro - Humanize crossfader? Auto-linked-cc'ing?

controlling volume AND crossfading can be a tidious process for good results. I understand the need to make a dramatic crecendo, but I would like the option to have VSL sound less 'straight' and more natural and dynamic on it's own. We can humanize timing and tuning, but not expressive playing. This would go a LONG way to saving a ton of time. It would also help VSL be more 'out of the box sounding right' which I think would bring a competitive edge, just like MIR and the current humanize features.

Thanks for listening! :)

-Sean

Hey VSL peeps!

In VI Pro, various versions and counting... when you play a staccato note, then a legato note... you hear the legato transition as if both were legato. It drives me mad! I just haven't bothered to report it until now.

If you need more info, let me know. But as it's been around a while, my guess is that you'll be able to replicate it fairly easily.

Again, thanks for all you guys do. Great software, great samples, great people!

-Sean

Dear VSL,

The single greatest non-playback feature in VI-Pro is IMHO the 'less than official' CTRL-ALT-W feature. It's brilliant. But.... Please change this function to set to the "new patch's default instrument range" after the switching is done. It's so close to being a perfect feature, minus this.

In any case, thanks for still what is an amazing piece of software!

-Sean

EDIT: I posted this after using the feature, but have no found that this has apparently been added already. I'm not sure if I had a fluke instance, but it is now loading the range of the new patch automatically.