Yes.

Dead wrong.

NEVER set instrument volume to maximum. We're in a 24-but world. Save some gain for later.

ALWAYS use "expression" for performance-vased volume IN CONJUNCTION with vel x-fade. IN a perfect world, vel x-fade should be all you need, but it's not a perfect world. Vel x-fade is THE MOST IMPORTANT performance tool you have (along with expression). Never set and leave it (for many/most instruments).

Study gain staging and mixing. No don't study anything. Just make music.

You are WAY overthinking this.

Look at it this way -- good writing will always be superior to good mixing. In other words, a well written orchestration will require far less "mixing". And a well performed, well written orchestration requires even less. This applies to music played on "real" instruments as well as virtual.

Can you intern at a studio and learn how mixing actually works in the real world?

I have graduated from an underpowered host barely able to run my protools session + 3 slaves, also somewhat underpowered and very under-memory, to a much more powerful i7 quad w/ 32gb ram. I have always maxed out the cores pref in VEPro since the only thing running on each slave was VEPro - but now attempting to run all on one machine is interesting... and although it app[ears that I have ram for days, i'm getting processor warnings here and there... is there guidance? yes, I RTFM and it gives may facts, it also says every situation is different.

So what are MAC guys doing with ProTools 10.2 HD, 4-core (I have a much faster CPU than a factory macpro) -- 2-cores for protools and 2 cores for VEPro? Or is there a secret handshake? Can I run both PT and VEPro server with max cores enabled?

:confused:

Thx

J

Bingo.

I uninstalled all versions, then installed 5.1.10738 -- and yes, when server connected to the host, Kontakt interface elements now work. That needs to be documented for the next guy! Hopefully, the next guy will read it here. Thanks for the tip!

J

That's a great question! I was building templates... so there is a possibility the template was not connected. I'll check as soon as I get in to the studio. Thanks for the suggestion.

J

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the speedy reply -- I wasn't looking to use the forum for a bug report, my intention was to seek others that may have had similar results to confirm, or tell me that I must be doing something wrong...

Please don't think I'm upset about this minor bug -- I know that your team will fix this. You guys fix everything (just about) faster than most developers. You know I am not capable of just making a report that says, "it's broken" -- you know me -- I will load 3 other versions on 2 operating systems just to be certain that "it's not just me" and to help pinpoint when the issue surfaced.

Is it better if I were to make a formal technical support request for this?

Yes, with my new machine, loading RTAS is not as deadly as it used to be.

Thanks!

J

PS -- just downloaded 5.1.10738 (demo) and of course, it works correctly - but ONLY in the standalone app -- in the servers, the settings button does not work - but it works in standalone. So this bug is in 4.1.10738 and 5.1.10738 servers -- any chance of this getting fixed? Hate to buy software that I don't really need or want for a bug fix.

More testing. I uninstalled 5.1.10738 and installed 4.1.8861 -- in STANDALONE app the seettings buttom works (both 32/64). But on both servers, the button does NOT work in 4.1.8861

So rolling back to 8861 is not the answer.

Can we get this fixed in version 4? version 5?

I had better things to do than test this tonight. :-(

Thx

J

I just joined the 21st century with a new machine (32gb ram) and I'm running it through its paces...

I discovered something in VEPro (64- or 32-bit - same in both) server 4.1.10738, mac OS 10.7.4 -- 

Loading Alicia's Keys (AU) into Kontakt 4.2.4 or K5 player (5.0.2) the "settings" tab in AK plug fails to open.

If I load the AK plug as RTAS into protools HD10.2, the settings tab works fine.

If I load the AK plug into older versions of VEpro 4 on WinXP vst or Mac 10.6.8 au, the settings tab works fine.

Also tested with the standalone app -- same behavior as the server.

When did things break?

Here's a video:

http://www.screencast.com/t/b62F13yP

Will I have to upgrade to VEPro5 to fix this? Can anyone else verify this in their version of VEPro?

Thx!

J

OOps -- we're mixing up acronyms.

ZDT is the ilok.com program. ZDT does NOT replace lost or stolen licences!

WAVES has a program called TLC that is time-bombed/phone home. Very different programs.

Remember, Waves charges an annual fee for WUP (which includes) ZDT. Are you willing to pay VSL an annual fee for a similar program?

I read that ArchDetct may report incorrectly if an app uses shell code... obviously these apps are universal - but I thought I'd share the results from the scan. Thanks for clarifying things.

J

Dear VSL:

ArchDetect reports these apps as PPC only:

• Vienna Instruments Pro Uninstall.app
• Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit).app
• Vienna Ensemble Pro (64-bit).app

I don't have the link in front of me -- but I remember reading that Apple has been playing whack-a-mole with the ethernet NIC for years -- some machines have 9k support, some don't. The most recent macpros support 9k, but there were some that didn't. Same for i7 iMacs... some support it, some don't.

It's not an OS thing. It's the NIC controller -- and there was no rhyme or reason to it. Simply, some models support 9k MTU, some don't. And it is (has been) a moving target.

Just thought this was worth tossing into the discussion.

J

use

192.168.1.64

192.168.1.65

because 192.168.1.1 and .10, .15 are often used by routers -- and you never want to have to change this. So start with a higher number.

PS -- you do not use .01 or .02 even if you wanted 1 and 2 -- it would be .1 or .2

J

Any reason why you chose this IP address range and subnet mask?

Subnet mask should probably be 255.255.255.0 (which is a block of all numbers on the first three dots, only allowing the last digits to be edited.)

You can try manual mode... since there is no router involved.

You can also try a different IP range, since 169.254. is usually a null address. Try 192.168.1.xx (and avoid any other 192.168.1.xx on your network - each address must be unique) - you can also tell your wifi router to exclude a range of numbers...

is the switch connected to a router? (are your machines connected to broadband, or is this a closed network?)

are you using a gigabit router or switch?

... but a dongle could be time-bombed, and a periodic phone-home can be mandatory. See Waves TLC

Reading the new VE Pro changelog:

Does this mean that VI Pro AU plugin is no longer required to be installed/updated?

I am NOT asking if the products are integrated - I know that each product requires separate purchase and authorization -- but specifically, if the AU plugin is needed at all anymore if we are only going to use VE Pro as host in MacOS.

If it is no longer required, is there a performance penalty if VI Pro AU is installed (for example, if I want to use the VI Pro plug with a host that is not VE Pro) ? That is, if VE Pro finds the VI Pro AU, is it a hit on performance?

Bottom line, is it better to remove the VI Pro AU plug if we are only using VE Pro as host? Does it matter? Thanks for any clarification.

J

Tony,

If your question is, "can I make music with the standard lib?"  then the answer will be yes.

HOWEVER -- if you look at the articulations in the extended, you will see that the "big money" sounds and articulations -- what will make your performances come alive, what makes VSL special, is the content in the extended lib (not always, but for the most part).

In my opinon, the fact that VSL split the libraries into pieces is simply marketing and semantics. Remember when the auto manufacturers used to sell cars that were essentially stripped? Yeah, it had 4 wheels, but you want auto transmission? Air conditioning? Power steering? A sound system? Sunroof? Leather seats? Etc... your $18,000 car just became $35,000... With VSL, in my opinion, the option for extended is simply not an option. If you're gonna do it, get the extended lib.

PS -- invest in VI Pro for maximum use of the libraries.

PS -- I just had to quote this, since it beyond amazing any music creator could show so much disrespect for musicians. I hope you get your work played by a major orchestra, and I hope they spit on your music when they discover you feel this way.

FInd me a successful composer or orchestrator, and I will show you someone who loves making music with musicians. I'm done. I have to prepare for my orchestra rehearsals, First read is later today. :-)

I was on a plane to Korea. I'm orchestrating a new musical for Broadway - out of town tryout is in Seoul.

http://tearsofheaven.co.kr/html/

some of what you hear on this site is stuff i produced -- and yes, VSL (except the wood flute, played by David Weiss)

I am non-disclosed with my artists -- we don't talk about production. if I give you links to iTunes, I'd be breaking the trust of my clients, who don't want anyone to know how we did it.

William, your contempt for musicians is astounding.

I have nothing to say to you.

is this a comedy forum? know any other jokes? 

VSL was a purchase that came right off the top of an album budget -- we either paid for 1 day in a studio with orch, or we bought VSL -- that was a "jumping off the platform without knowing if there was water in the pool" moment. Because if it didn't work, I'd be out $14k + nothing would be recorded. Of course, our $14k was only going to get us about 30 minutes of music. we had a 60 minutes of music. It cost me about a month of really learning the tools. And then another month while getting up to speed. And some hardware issues.

Major label budgets are a fraction of what they were. As in 1/10th -- for years and years, we did projects in the 500k+ range. Now, we're lucky if they can find $50k -- that's just how it is. And the big live sessions are the first thing to go. We just did a single 3hr big band date for 4 songs (used to only do 2 songs per 3 hrs) -- and instead of an entire record of orchestra, some songs are specifically arranged ot be smaller -- these are choices based on finances... from the label. Fortunately, there's always another way to tell the story. Would it be great with an 80 piece orch? yeah? Will it be great with a trio? Of course it will. ;-)

William needs to go work with real players to really appreciate the samples. And to really appreciate the musicianship that only a room full of cats can bring to the project.

And yes, I have never done a session, ever, where the robots, er, musicians, didn't interpret the score and make it better. As I said in a post earlier -- any crappy orchestrator can sound good if you write for a good band, since the musicians will always make it sound good. But the samples are unforgiving. Useful tools, huh? :-)

Ah... this is where we will never agree.

I use samples. Extensively.

I orchestrate and conduct and work with live orchestras. Extensively.

Music to me is about emotion. NOBODY, i repeat, NOBODY gives a crap about any single articulation.

Part of the magic is that sometimes, collaborators will all inspire and influence each other. If you view your orchestra as robots trained to perform on cue exactly your vision of perfection, you will be one very disappointed composer. And a composer without musician friends who don't look forward to playing your work.

I use VSL as much as anyone -- at the highest levels, but never, EVER discount the importance of the hybrid and the collaboration with the real guys. Never.

We're only making music. It's just not that important. Sure, I get notes from fans, "your music helped me through a difficult time" or "we played your music at our wedding and it brought us joy" -- that's a fringe benefit of what we do... but it's never so important that we miss the bigger picture: "does it feel good?"

As a non-film maker, I would never say, "but the DP should have used a different lens for the wide shot... it ruined the film" -- I may leave the film unsatisfied, but the viewer never would call out any technical moment. Unless you're a pro. NOBODY will ever say, "but the viola section didn't articulate the detache's with the snap that VSL library would give it..." that's total bullshit if you think that ANYONE anywhere is actually listening to your music that way. Trust me, nobody cares. Do they like the song? Does it make you feel something? Does it score the scene and make an emotional impact? Everything else is just stuff you do for your own entertainment.

If you truly think that you can make better music with machines -- great. I use the machines as a creative choice and usually financial issue -- machines vs. $30,000 session?  Then there are the hybrid scores...  so we do whatever services the music. But maybe it's my age, but I no longer believe that anything I do is important. Yeah, people enjoy it. And they pay me. And I get pleasure doing it. And I get pleasure knowing others enjoy it. But if not me, it will be someone else. I am not the only guy who can make a song sound good. So I just do my thing... speaking of, I have 170 bars of orchestration I need to deliver by tomorrow.

As a New Yorker, I don't understand this comment -- it's pretty hard NOT to assemble a group of pro musicians from within the NYC community that isn't superb. If a player is actively working in NYC, I can count on a great section. Unfortunately, 99% of our recording studios have closed. We only have one big room left.

And as a touring conductor, I have had the pleasure of working with pops orchestras in: Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Cleveland, Birmingham, Salt Lake City, Miami, Denver, and about a dozen other large cities in the US with SUPERB orchestras. There's no lack of talent out there. So be careful -- 99% of the orchestras are NOT sub-par. maybe 5% -- but not anywhere near your 99% number.

Boys and Girls,

What you are missing from this "discussion" is that we don't necessarily  write for real the same as we write for the samples.

When i am creating with the library, to be played by the library, I have the luxury of manipulating what I am writing at any given moment to make it sound as good (and feel as good) as I want it to be -- and sometimes that means we write things that we may not have done for the "real guys". And sometimes, it's MUCH harder to write for the samples -- since they are unforgiving.

I mean -- with a good room of musicians, you can give them just about anything, and the best players will make most anything sound as good as it's going to sound. The samples are not nearly as accommodating. If the writing stinks, the sample lib will make sure everyone knows.

Conversely, simply taking an orchestration and trying to render it with the lib is not always going to get results -- since a good orchestrator has the luxury of knowing that the musicians will make it right. But the samples only can do what they can do... and if the orchestration is not written specifically for the samples, you may or may not get the results you wanted.

Yes, I do this for a living. And my work can be heard internationally. And I can't tell you which tracks are real and which are fake (I get to conduct full orchs as well as doing the fake work) else my clients will shoot me. There's a new album coming out in about 8 weeks for a major artist in the US, for a major label, and this label is known for paying for big orchestra dates... except on this project - and the head of A&R for the label (who is a respected conductor) wrote me a note, congratulating me, and wanting to strangle me at the same time -- since he knows what I just did.

The point is that there are some guys doing some very high level work -- and it usually involves some serious audio engineering and producing skills to go with the musicianship. The samples alone only get you so far -- then you have to make them sound and feel real.

Can I fool the listener? You betcha. It may be a hybrid -- sometimes using a soloist + section samples. But i can fool the listeners. Even if the listeners are musicians and conductors. If I can do it, so can others. But remember, we're probably writing for the samples, not the real guys. It's not nearly as easy to do well as some represent. And then add decades of audio and conducting and playing experience -- yes, there are some guys pulling it off. And I'll guarantee that many of us have signed non-disclosures, so we can't really tell you which projects are fake. 

And are we trying to sound "real" or are we trying to sound organic and emotional? What's the PURPOSE of the music?

If you want to be real good at this, go conduct and play in real orchestras for about 20 years, then come back to the samples.