Awesome. Thank you so much for your reply, Paul. Actually I still have to check out the editor GUI. The thing is so well built that I quite enjoyed doing the settings on the box itself. But with lots of presets etc. I guess a GUI would work wonders.

PS. I can't see the settings that you so kindly attached. I should be able to view it in the thread, right? Please let me know if I am missing something DS.

I am using the Icon Platform X+ for to manage midi CC (EXP, FILTER, S-XF,HUMANIZER etc.) works very well as a stand alone controller. Not if you are looking at some other usage but if you're only looking to control midi then I can recomend the cheaper Platform X+. Some say that the software was lacking but I've not had any problems thus far.

Hello,

For long I've searched for a mod-wheel replacement and I finaly came to my senses and listened to Paul which always promote the Hornberg Research HB-1. For all those still questioning the price, well if you are serious about what you do then I can highly recommend it. The settings is the best I've ever felt on a breath controller. And it's so easy and fast to make a perfect take.

Thus far I've only limited myself to do the VXF even though it's now possible to manage multiple CC at the same time with different offsets. However, I wonder... Does anyone have any setting recommendations for recording the different instruments? As of now I am using the following settings for recording strings:

• DRIVE 7
• RELEASE 35
• ATTACK 20
• OFFSET 60

I know these are surely highly individual but I would love to know from people (especially Paul) with more experience than myself.

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam

Do you play the notes in using a velocity sensitive MIDI keyboard? For short articulations, velocity XF isn't really necessary and can lead to, as you have experienced, mind numbing micro management. Often times, the act of simply playing in a staccato pattern on the keyboard gives enough variation in the velocity to lend the authenticity you're after.

Other tricks are to not quantize nearly as hard... or at all, even. In REAPER, you can select the notes you want, press H, and have it randomize the velocity and timing of those notes by a certain percentage with an optional seed-based bias. I'm certain your DAW has a similar feature and can produce a controlled inconsistency that will give you what you're after, especially if you draw the notes in on a grid.

If you're after a bit more nuance, automate the tuning amount so that the detuning and delay settings get applied more or less depending on the curve you draw/record. You can also automate the start offset and start offset attack a tiny bit to vary the amount and intensity of the attack you hear for ultra detailed impressions.

Does any of this help? Id be happy to clarify/provide examples if you need.

- Sam

• Kawai VPC-1 has the best piano-feel but is large (too large to hide under the desk) and have no features.
• Studio Logic SL88 Grand and the Doepfer-line have Fatar TP/40GH key-beds which feel good, and can hide under the desk… but are also very limited in feature.
• Native Instrument S88 MK2 can hide under the desk, it has ton of features… but a Fatar TP/100 (most likely, although not confirmed) key-bed which I am told do not come close to TP/40GH wood keys.

Which one to choose….

Hello,

I've a general question to how to manage midi automation for different articulations. Obviously the legato, sustain, tremolo patches mainly focus on V-XF, EXP and in some case FILTER. But how do you guys manage short patches like the staccato, pizzicato, detache etc.?

I've gotten accustomed to micro manage them by doing very minor, detailed and controlled changes using V-XF to the point where the controller lane looks like a saw-pattern. I am trying to achieve a realistic movement of the bow in that the pressure on the string is not always even and depending on up- or down-strokes might start with more or less force.

However, this method is obviously very time consuming and also hard to perform during faster repetitions. Thus, I wonder if there are any other tricks to achieve the same or similar result? I've tried to automate the humanization features where I at least get a slight variation in tune and delay since I am normally quantizing pretty hard. But that does not impact the velocity for each stroke in a staccato repetition.

I made the following two samples that you can A/B (live performance to click without quant.)

1. Staccato without micro management, straight V-XF/EXP curves (DS/VI-DSK1)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/onya330hmselilv/staccato_without_micro-management.wav?dl=0

2. Staccato with micro management, saw V-XF straight EXP (DS/VI-DSK2)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8svgxxef8deyg1/staccato_with_micro-management.wav?dl=0

And the follow up question. If micromanagement is a thing, how do you control it? I've been using the mod-wheel because of the low friction and rapid response...

Thanks,BR

Thanks for the tip. Good to know that SL88 seem like a very capable keyboard with great action. However, I was looking for a stand-alone Midi Controller that can be used togeather with a DOEPFER PK88 keyboard since it does not have any buttons or sliders.

However, I came across this little thing; Expressive E Touché. What if you could map the VXF with  a simple hand gesture and the EXP with actual pressure of the hand? and Slot-XF to control the vibrato with an actual vibrato gesture? I must try it! I'll let you know how it works if anyone is interested :)

Hello,

This idea just litteraly jumped on me so please bare with. Sometimes when I do really fast staccato runs (either scale or typical "Hans Zimmer" chords) I feel the need to detail each stroke with a small VXF variation just to get the feel that each touch on the strings is not exactly identical. I've been doing this for years and yes, it is a hassle to record such small variations. If the composition allows I'll sometimes lower the BPM just to get it right on. But what if the Humanizer also could do this automatically? I figure that it wont do much to sustains but doing that you could just zero the Humanizer VXF and run with the basic one.

Best Regards

Hello,

With the release of the Steinway I came to the conclusion that I must experience this with a high-quality midi-keyboard and has therefore decided to grab a DOEPFER PK88. I’ve previously been using a M-Audio Oxygen 88 but am not loving the key action on it. It’s way to sluggish action to feel anything like a real keyboard.
However, I do use some of the Midi controllers on it, such as the mod-wheel, and sliders for controlling my VXF, EXP, S-XF etc. and the DOEPFER PK88 is simply just keys. Do anyone have any recommendation on a good Midi controller that can be used to easy manage all the VSL controllers?

Best Regards

Hello,

I am just making this thread to let everyone know of a possible bug that I encountered. After switching to Win10, VEP6 and Cubase 9.5 I noticed that after a while of playing my Vienna Imperial instance started to sound blurry and un-EQ'd. Once I started troubleshooting I noticed that the in-player EQ had stopped modeling the sound. Moving the EQ to a VEP6 VI Suite Pro EQ is an easy fix but just to let everyone know this behavior exsist.

Did you update the download manager? I got the same problem when I tried to download FX strings without updating. Worked like a charm once I did it. Too bad I had to download the library twice before I noticed ;)

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi musicbase. 

The Synchron Player is available with Synchron FX Strings I right now. 

We are preparing the download for the re-packed sample content for our other Synchron Series products, it will become available as soon as possible (in the next days). When the sample content is released, the access to the Synchron Player will be available for all Synchron Series users. Another download is necessary to make this combination work.
Of course you will be contacted as soon as this is the case. 

@jhohnny-erikssson: I wonder what's going on with Cubase there.... can you please send the crash report to ? No troubles on our test setups with Cubase, and these are the only reports so far...

Best,
Paul

@Paul Yes. I've sent in a case (276852) 6 days ago with the Cubase crash logs but I still have not gotten any reply :(

Hello,

I think you need to run the eLicenser Control Center and your DAW applications as administrator. Right click on the program and select properties -> compability. There you should have a box that says "Run this program as administrator". This should do it.

Best Regards

Jhonny Eriksson

Hello,

I've also encountered this issue. I tried to re-install the Synchron Player and reactivate the plugins whereupon Cubase crashed.

I am using Cubase 9.5.0 (build 55) 64-bit. OS is Windows 10.

Any suggestions?

EDIT! Tried to update Cubase to 9.5.30 Build 192. Now the plugins are not blacklisted but Cubase still crashes when i try to enable the VST.

Thanks, Best Regards

Hello,

I've just installed VEP6 and is re-vamping my template and integration with Cubase 8. This time I want to run everything as 64-bit inc. the Instrument Track. I've the server interface set to enable 10 MIDI Ports but when I add my Intrument Track I can only pick 1 MIDI in.

If I use the Vienna Ensamble Pro Instrument track I get all 10 MIDI in. Must I use the Vienna Event Input x64 in some way? I run the Vienna Ensamble Pro Server 64-bit in the background on my master.

This is what I am doing:

1. Start VEP64 Server

2. Start Cubase 8 and setup a empty project

3. Create VEP6 instance (set MIR stage and add an Instrument to output 2/1)

4. Add Instrument Track; Vienna Ensamble Pro x64

5. Add Midi-track and set Midi Output... Here I can only pick 01. Vienna Ensamble Pro x64 - Midi In... and I've only 16 channels to pick from. (I am looking for 02. Vienna Ensamble Pro x64?)

How can I route this to MIDI in 2, channel 1 with Vienna Ensamble Pro x64?

Thanks, Best Regards

Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire

I think it's odd what people are making out of this. Almost a quasi-religious discussion. Even more so considering the fact that the Synchron series so far has been still very much in line with VSLs "philosophy". Some people act as if the Synchron Strings were swimming in a sea of reverb and had this totally distinct, immutable sound, like it came straight out of a Hollywood movie.

Quite the opposite is true. SyS might be the driest "wet" library out there. It's not at all comparable to the Spitfire stuff or whatever. It has 100% VSL character - pristine, flexible, more "classical" - and has such a subtle reverb tail that would hardly get in the way of anything you might want to do. And the multi-mic setup is exactly what you need for the same flexibility you always had with VSL. If you need a closer, drier sound - what's the problem? Dial in the mics accordingly! It's easier and faster done than previously.

 The most notable change is that due to the realistic spatial depth, the samples simply sound more natural and "real" than the older libraries.

 It seems to me that some of the notions expressed here have more to do with tribal instincts and "choosing sides" than with using one's ears.

I agree with you too. For me it's not black and white obviously. I just think that the switch in marketing and what made VSL unique from the get go is something that some of us will need to get used to.

I don’t wish to sound anything like a critic when I talk about VSL. These libraries have changed my life, really. And I am so grateful that VSL is continuing to evolve and release new products. I've gotten every penny I've invested worth and I bought the SYS FX1 on the day it was released. When the SYS Steinway is released I intend to get that one as well, no matter the cost or how happy I am with the Bosendorfer (playing a Steinway in my living room... just the thought).

It’s just the strings… they made the Dimension, Orchestral and the rest so got damn good that for now, SYS Strings is just an abundance (for me). I am still learning. And thank god (VSL) for that.

My thoughts exactly... It used to sound like this: "pre-recorded reverb (like East West) is old news; static, limited and unoriginal. VSL has revolutionized virtual orchestration by recording it completely dry!"
And with the Synchron-lineup it's completely the other way around :P Very strange indeed... Obviously the quality delivered by VSL is uncontested. But I got into VSL because it was recorded dry, in superb resolution. I will not convert to Synchron, i rather make the Synchron sound myself using a mix of instruments and MIR. That way i can truly make my own sound.

Thanks for the reply!
Very interesting points. I'll test adding several layers of compression right away and really try to automate around the markers between soft and hard articulations. I am keeping my staging-project pretty basic to find a baseline mix which I can incorporate into my larger projects. So I've effectively disabled everything except the main string section. That way I can avoid evil frequencies, that might otherwise make me miss the marker in an complex mix.

EDIT! Adding the 2nd compressor (preset Pre-MS Limiter) I bumped my output +3dB. Getting closer :)

@Dietz Do you have any tips on creating distortion? Any specific plugins or method of using the basic suite plugins?

@William Finding the correct levels between instruments and articulations is really difficult I feel. Do you have any tips on workflow? As I detailed in the OP there are so many places to effectively adjust volume for single instruments that I sometimes loose the overall view of each track. I usually try to do the following:

1. Define the ceiling - I max the velocity at the Piano and strings as a baseline and then try to find the settings were the limiter put in some work but not to the point where it's affecting the overall sound. For this I usually max Expression level 110 and 128 Velocity-XF on all strings.

2. Define the floor - I then try to find a minimum volume in relation to each instrument. These values usually differ; i.e. it might be Expression level 30 on a violin section and 20 on the viola.

3. Build the dynamics for each section of the composition -  I set a baseline Expression and then move Velocity-XF up and down across the timeline so that each instrument play with the correct velocity (intensity) that the composition requires. I then use Expression to find the correct volume in relation between all instruments.

4. Make the performance - in this step I detail the velocity-XF and perhaps even switching up the articulations a little bit more. I also add slot XF to control the vibrato. I use the modulation wheel on my keyboard to record the XF and vibrato. Sometimes I lower the BPM on the project to get a range of velocity into each violin stroke, even the staccatos. For staccato specifically I measure between a interval of approx. 10-15 in a busy section.

This work OK but I find that I sometimes need to reset an entire section based on the final result.
Anyone else want to share their settings? :)

Hello,

I am feeling like a bloody novice but I figure it’s better to admit it and man up to acknowledge the fact instead of keep on trying on my own.

I am looking for loudness. I know it’s not for everybody but I am OK with giving up some dynamics and what not to achieve it. So far, I’ve reached the conclusion that it’s a matter of finding the right levels between all the settings where volume is a factor. In summary this is all the places where I can affect the dB meter on my VSL mix:

• Vienna Instrument Volume
• Expression (I count this but not velocity X-Fade)
• Vienna Ensemble Mixer Instrument Track Volume
• Vienna Ensemble Mixer Inserts (separate instrument compressor and limiter)
• Vienna MIR, insert and configuration (mic position, wet and dry signal)
• Vienna MIRacle (as a bus and pre-fader send)
• Vienna Ensemble Mixer Master Volume
• DAW Master (compressor and limiter)

This is 10 places in total where I can meter volume, either for a separate track – or the entire mix. So far, I’ve been able to achieve a great sounding mix, all the instruments volume is in a good place in relation to each other. What I am looking for is a way to up the level on the entire mix without pushing the master limiter too much.

Please note that I am realistic. I am using software equipment for some 1000 dollars so I know I can't make it sound like it was prepared at Abbey Road Studios. But if what I am getting is the maximum I could possibly achieve with this setup please let me know if there is anything I should consider investing in, either a hardware compressor, limiter or otherwise (or just tell me to attend some mixing and mastering classes since I have no clue what I am doing ).

This is my settings for the main string section (Violins 1&2, Violas, Cellos and Double Bass respectively):

•     Vienna Instrument Volume (128/128/128/128)
•     Expression (I count this but not velocity X-Fade) (all the instrument sections is about 30-40 in diminuendo and 90-110 in crescendo, X-Fade is everything from 30-120, but for the sake of argument; 60/60/70/60)
•     Vienna Ensemble Mixer Instrument Track Volume (-5dB/-5dB/0dB/-6dB/-11dB)
•     Vienna Ensemble Mixer Inserts (separate instrument compressor and limiter)
•        Compressor (Preset for orchestral strings on all instruments)
•        Limiter (overload protection only on Double Bass)
•        And… I also use dedicated EQs on each instrument but that’s only for coloring the sound
•     Vienna MIR, insert and configuration (mic position, wet and dry signal)
•        Mic position
•           Violin 1 (-2,5X/1Y)
•           Violin 2 (-5X/2Y)
•           Viola (0X/2Y)
•           Double Bass (2,5X/2Y)
•        Wet/Dry
•           All strings (0,3)
•     Vienna MIRacle (as a bus and pre-fader send)
•        All strings (-9dB Pre Fader/Preset for Teldex Length Enhance)
•     Vienna Ensemble Mixer Master Volume (0dB)
•     DAW Master (compressor and limiter)
•        Meter (0dB)
•        Multiband Compressor (Preset: Loudness)
•        Limiter (Threshold -12dB/Release 100.00/Ceiling -0,5dB)

OBS! I use Synchron Stage A (wide) with this setup; only main mic (standard position), max reverb-time (1,8) and 0/0 dry/wet.

Sorry for referencing to the presets that I use but hopefully that’s easier than transcribing every single setting. In my ensemble I also use Dimension Strings, Keys (Imperial, Organ, Cembalo, and Harp) Brass-, Percussion- and Voice-sections. So, there is plenty more added into a mix but I am guessing that the process of achieving loudness is more or less equal or possibly a matter of maybe re-arranging a few sections.

All in all, I’ve measured that I am about 6dB away from a Hollywood score with this setup. Is that normal? Browsing through the demos you all post I feel that there is a great few of you who measure higher levels than I do. What is your secret?

Thanks,

Best Regards

Oh well... once you know that it's Guy you know that it probably will sound better than what oneself would ever achieve ;)

Quality in every detail. Love the pizzicato and trianlge working. Dynamics is also off the hook. Simply Beautiful.

Great composition, really nice details and love the depth when everything is working togeather. If anything I would continue to work a little bit on few of the drum parts. I know how hard it can be to really nail that orchestral drum sound but it does make a huge diffrence once you achive it.

Good job!

Originally Posted by: jmcecil

Two options,

1) Studios want the audio.  And, they want the individual tracks as dry as possible.  So you will not need VSL at all.  You will export everything as audio, time stamped, so it can be properly imported into whatever system the studio has.  

2) Print the score and  have a real orchestra record it in the studio.

I can't imagine a studio having the time (or you the money) to deal with the project at the VSL/MIDI level.

Great input! Thanks!

Good news... and a little bit scary. I was hoping that I might re-touch some areas in my automation; expression for example in case it didn't fit as well in the mix. But thats detail work so hopefully that wont matter as much as I might think :)

Originally Posted by: derek_gibbons_10742

Bounce out the individual tracks per instrument without fx as audio....and make sure you label them or the studio will get grumpy :D

As I side note, if you're using MIR Pro I find a pretty decent mix can be achieved by yourself using just that for instrument positioning and EQ, and the Vienna Suite plugins for some multiband processing. A lot of the presets are excellent starting points.

I then get the output mastered at Abbey Road Studios here in London by film soundtrack engineer Andy Walter. Seems to work for me, and saves a big chunk of money!

https://youtu.be/CkFaaBTrbhM

Great input. Thanks for the tip and... congratulations on a great score! Sounds fantastic! Did you use the Abbey Road Online Services? Seems like a great source to obtain both mixing and mastering.

Hello,

I am afraid this question might result in thousands of "in case of..." "it could..." "if..." - this and that. But I am looking for experience, or input from studio owners and engineers who might come in contact with these situations.

I am a writer, composer. I've been lucky enough to afford the full range of VSL instruments and software to use on my own workstation without any limits. However, when it comes to mixing and mastering I am a novice. I've tried to get myself involved in the process by reading and playing around with the traditional tools but I think time has come to admit that I will never learn to be a successful producer on my own. I simply end up writing music all the time what I love to do.

I am currently in the works of putting down some final addtions to a symphony that I've been working on for many years and I am dreaming of having it fully produced, mixed and all. I am guessing professional studios are working with midi all the time but what about something as complete as VSL?

If I were to define professional studio it would fall into the category of what I could afford, meaning; no big recording stages but well equiped studios with experienced staff working with anything from pop to metal.

My guess is that I would load the midi into their workstation/sequenser and then just let them have a go with it. I have completed the score, and most of the automation such as velocity-XF, expression and slot-XF. Is there anything else I would need to consider?

In my work flow I use MIR and VEP. Is that anything that a professional studio would use or even gain from?

So in short...

• Does anyone have experience taking VSL to a professional studio?
• Is there anything more I can do in preperation except bringing the midi-information incl. automation (VXF, Exp. and Slot-XF)?
• Would a studio ever consider using VSL software in their work flow?

Hello everyone,

... And thanks so much for all your great answers! I never thought that I would catch the attention of all great masters here on the forum, Beat, Dietz, William and Civilization that really hit the nail with his comment.

No. I do not really understand what I am doing to be frank. As I think it is for many my focus, all years writing songs, has been on composing. So when it comes to production, mixing and mastering I am a total novice; which is why I really needed your wisdom to push me in the right direction. I've tried to read the "Mixing Audio" reference but working full time as a networking engineer doesn't give you much time to read anything else (at least not pursuing the CCIEs certificates).

When it comes to actually trying your suggestions I instantly noticed a difference once I got the Compressor/EQ/Limiter setup. At least my meters are now moving (as if that proves anything). The problem with the Stereo Enhancer; so elegantly described by Beat; I instantly noticed. It did kill the stereo feeling. I was playing around with multiple master EQs because I felt that once I added the compressor (for example) it colored some not very pleasant frequencies which I tried to kill off. But working a little bit harder with the primary (and now only master EQ) seems to have solved it.

So now my master is bit more stripped down:
Compressor
Master EQ
Limiter

I do use MIR. The Teldex Studio Wide Venue with the MIC and EQ presets that comes with the download from the user area. I use MIRacle on the Master in VEP5; the Teldex Length Enhancer and I got my dry/wet ratio set to -30. Additionally I use an EQ on each instrument in VEP mostly playing around with presets. My instrument profiles in MIR mostly end up on the Pure option.  It’s beginning to sound a little better. Adding a picture of my new setup of anyone has any other suggestion to what I could improve.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0jo52dxhrlbw8p/Master-mix-2.jpg

Thanks all so much!

Hello,
One thing that I constantly struggle with is to get the right loudness in my productions. There are so many places you can adjust volume (Instrument volume, Master volume, MIR microphone volume, Expression: even Velocity) plus all the different effects that are there to help such as limiter, compressor et al. I realize that this is a huge topic but I really need some tips to make my life easier.

I've tried to follow the directions from the great Beat Kaufmann; following his step to Cubase mixing. My normal setup on the master is:
Master EQ
Multiband Compressor
Master EQ
Maximizer
Limiter
Stereo Enhancer
UV22HR

The Multiband Compressor I find it really difficult to work with as sometimes slight changes on any of the other volume impacting knobs make it sound dreadful. Usually I try to strengthen the low, lower the mid-low and higher the mid-high (and high when needed). The thresholds I usually tend to end up with less on the low and more on the highs.

I usually want to use Natural Volume in MIR to get the overhead I need to create my dynamics but mostly I just end up having to higher them when I master as no matter what I do with the plugins I just don't get as loud as I want.

I try to use Expression smartly to create the space I need for dynamics which I can detail with V.X-Fade. My normal working routine is that I place my piano on the MIR stage. Set it to Natural Volume; plus slight mixing EQ etc. and use that as a "starting point" volume-wise. After that I adjust Expression to create a "normal volume" for my instruments which I can later use to higher when playing forte or lower coming into a piano section. Does not seem to work very well tough...

Sample;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9dbofytbii3tw2/Mixing-Sample.mp3

Picture of master:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/93c1igqar4b20m8/Master-mix.jpg