In some cases, if you play the same note on Vl 1 and Vl 2 at the same time, you will in fact get "phasing", because in these cases, Vl 1 and Vl 2 trigger the same sample at the same time. As a result, it sounds like one violin in the center instead of one violin on the left and another violin on the right. This has been acknowledged by VSL here:

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t41565-Bug--Solo-Vl-and-VlB-have-identical-samples-in-some-cases#post248770

Originally Posted by: jc5

... I do remember that was the position VSL took - however I hope that has changed.  New experience and technological advancement over time bring new possibilities.  If they didn't then why make a new library of instruments already covered?  

Their position wasn't premised on the technology at their disposal at the time they wrote that. Their position was a statement about the immutable laws of physics.

Originally Posted by: jc5

In general dynamic relations can have many variables - but the variables in this case are pretty cleanly defined, and from where I'm watching it seems to be by design.  The instruments are being recorded in position in the same hall - based on the diagrams it seems the plan is very much to fill out the whole orchestra with their seating intact in relation to each other.  The array of microphones will be in the same position for all, and I would assume they will be the very same microphones each time.  Based on this setup the relations in dynamics between layers and between different instruments (including the effect relative distance plays) is very much measureable, and I would say extremely relevant.

I agree with you completely. However, VSL's position was that natural-dynamics isn't even a sensible notion, and that people who even entertain the concept are irrational people lacking sense. When I want more insults and science-denial from developers, I'll consider buying these new strings.

Originally Posted by: jc5

Originally Posted by: nektarios

Can someone explain what this means from the product info page: "We’ve developed a new sampling process wherein all performances are recorded and edited at 'fixed gain'"?

I am assuming it means that the natural dynamic levels of each layer are captured in relation to each other so that the correct dynamic range of the instrument is preserved, also preserving the natural balance with the other instruments.

VSL's position is that that "natural dynamic levels" and "correct dynamic range" cannot be provided by sample libraries, because they are somehow subjective concepts:

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t41142p2-MIRx-natural-volume-without-MIRx?=#post247133

Originally Posted by: JBacal

Thanks for the heads-up. I will double check the score tomorrow.

Best wishes,
Jay

Thanks for considering it. I haven't seen a score, but I'm going by my ears, after listening to the official recording dozens of times. And I've listened to yours 10 times so far, because it's that good, and I wish I could do that.

At 7:14

currently is d-, c, d-, e-, d, e-, f

but it should be d-, c, d-, e-, d-, e-, f

IMHO

I like this demo a lot btw.

Originally Posted by: William

Unless you are working for a competing company as a shill...  then there is a big issue.

What if you're working as a shill? Would that be a big issue?

I get good results from Dimension Strings legato, but please do not attack the other postsers for having opinions different from yours. That would be an actionable offense.

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi tek0010, 

I wrote you a PM concerning your registrations. Would be great to get a reply (click "MyInbox) in the menu on the left side.

In general, the MIR PRO plug-in has nothing to do with the VE PRO license.  

Thanks,
Paul

I see your PM Paul: You don't like what I'm saying---you're trying to figure out which of your paying customers I am, because I'm not "friendly" enough.

I'm not here to make friends, Paul. I'm here inquiring about a setting that your company neglected to document.

I'm here explaining to Dietz what the word "capsule" means, because on page 1 he asks:

I'm here answering Dietz's question, why would a person want more inputs coming into his mixing console (or DAW) than going out from it---even though that has been a routine practice since the 1950's.

I'm here making a local copy of this thread, so I can post it on Gearslutz, KVR, and VI-Control, in case you decide to censor it here, because I wasn't "friendly" enough.

As if there aren't already enough threads on VI-Control about your treatment of the customers who pay your salary.

Originally Posted by: FlorianWalter

For me this also works on Windows with VST. You can see 5 channels playing in the screenshot attached. Reaper recognized MIR Pro as an 8 channel VST plug-in, I can set up to 8 output channels in the plug-in pin connector. I did not use the "Force output channels" option.

Thanks for testing it.

Originally Posted by: FlorianWalter

Is there any setting concerning plug-in channels you might have changed in Reaper?

It's extremely unlikely I've changed anything that would affect this. I have kept a written list of every Reaper-option I've changed away from the defaults, and the list is short and includes nothing related to plug-in channels.

We are all talking about MIR Pro plugin here, and there's no confusion about that; but I'm wondering, could it make a difference that I have no license for VE Pro? Is it possible that this functionality is tied to the VE Pro license? I have no idea what else could be the deciding factor.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Isn't that what you get?

No.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

How would _you_ set up a surround session in Reaper?

This is how I would set up a Surround 64 session in Reaper, once they invent Surround 64:

For Surround 5, I would select 6 "Track Channels" rather than 64 "Track Channels". (6 not 5, because Reaper requires an even number.)

Originally Posted by: Dietz

If you would do so, you could use _any_ downmixing device (i.e.: multi-channel to stereo) of your choice for the dynamic mixture of up to eight individual MIR Pro output channels.

No, because MIR doesn't send Reaper 8 channels, even when I set Reaper to 8 channels. And then I see an undocumented setting named "Force output channels", and that sounds like it's designed to make MIR send whatever number of channels I need; so I ask for clarification about this undocumented thing in MIR; but no, it's not for daily for use, it's just for special, secret, undocumented situations.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Please understand that it's not my job to explain users the handling of their DAWs.

Okay; and you please understand that my job is to use whichever tool does the task best for my clients, and when MIR isn't that tool, that means less revenue for VSL, and that means they have less resources to pay you for your job.

Whose job is it to document "Force output channels"?

Originally Posted by: Dietz

*sigh*

Yes, you said that before. It's done since the 1950ies, I do it since the 1980ies, and MIR Pro does it since 2011. 

For some reason I don't understand you don't want to see any of the solutions I offered you in this thread already (and in many others before), so I rest my case.

Have a great day.

The "solutions" you offer are:

1) Output 2 channels to my DAW, which isn't really a solution.

2) Output 5 channels to my DAW, but you don't tell me how to do it. You don't know about Reaper, and the most you're willing to say about "Force output channels" is, you didn't mean it for daily use, just for special cases. As if that's a "solution"?

Here is what a real solution sounds like, not in English or German. Just a VSL flute starts off with no center capsule, then the center capsule fades in, and then the center capsule fades back out:

https://drive.google.com/open?id...YXb_HdIQhXzdQLVVPa3NsNGc

Not MIR, because you don't say how to do it in MIR.

And what I'm doing in my DAW---mixing the balance between center capsule and side capsules---is not revolutionary. It's a very basic thing people have been doing since the 1950's.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Actually it's showing 5 microphone capsules going into 2 channels, which is something you are trying to achieve, aren't you?

It's showing 5 microphone I cannot mix dynamically with automation in my DAW; so it's not what I'm trying to achieve. It's what I've known all along how to do.

If that's how I wanted to keep doing it, I wouldn't be asking about "Force output channels" now.

When I talk about mixing capsules in my DAW, I don't mean mixing capsules in MIR. MIR is not my DAW. MIR is one thing, and my DAW is a different thing. Not equivalent.

Right now, in my DAW, I have the center capsule on one fader, and I have the side capsules on another fader. This is not MIR though, it is something else; because someone else answered my question.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

You should download Example 1, too, to see exactly what you trying to teach me.

I downloaded it, and but it's the opposite of what I'm talking about. It shows 2 channels going into the DAW, while I'm writing a long thread about more than 2 channels going into the DAW.

I guess you are having some fun here, telling me everything except how to get MIR to send more than 2 channels to my DAW. I'll leave you to that; goodbye.

And people have been mixing classical music like that since the 50's. It is a very normal thing, to bring lots of inputs input in a DAW or mixing console, then mix them down to stereo, and then output a final stereo product.

Or imagine a person recording a real Decca tree. The center capsule comes into the DAW on one track, and L/R capsules come into the DAW on 1 or 2 different tracks. Maybe outriggers come in on 4th and 5th tracks. But you can use this to make a stereo CD, because in your DAW you can mix the inputs down to L/R stereo.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

If you want to use individual outputs for those capsules, you will need to use MIR Pro in a surround environment. The Output Matrix will have to look similar to the screenshot of example 2.

... does this help ...?

The screenshot of example 2 shows what I have been trying to accomplish, but I'm unable to accomplish. No matter where I try moving my mouse and clicking the buttons, no matter what keys on my keyboard I press, my copy of MIR does not look like the jpg in your example 2.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Wait a minute - in your previous message you wrote that you work in stereo only, but now you want to open three or five outputs ...? I can't follow your train of thoughts. 8-/

I didn't say I work only in stereo; I said I produce for stereo:

"I'm producing for stereo, not surround".

What comes out of my DAW is stereo. That is different from what comes into my DAW.

Imagine someone using a real mid/side microphone. The microphone outputs one mid-channel, and one side-channel. That enters the DAW as one mid-channel and one side-channel. But that is not what the final listeners hears, because it's not what eventually comes out of the DAW. In the DAW, you mix the mid/side channels with your faders, and then you transform the mid/side system into a Left/Right system, and then you render that Left/Right system to a WAV file, and when the person at the end listens to your music, he doesn't hear Mid coming out of one speaker and Side coming out of the other speaker. He hears Left/Right stereo, because you used your DAW correctly to process the information from the mid/side microphone.

This is but one of many examples how a DAW can output something different from what enters it.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

All you need is to take a closer look at the "Matrix" tab of the Output Fromat Editor.

I have looked at it for several hours already before starting this thread.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Here you can assign any capsule to any output with different levels and polarity. IOW: You can create five capsules and assign them to the two stereo outputs, for example.

But if I want to create five capsules and assign them to three outputs? If I want to create five capsules and assign them to five outputs?

Reaper is ready to receive any number of outputs MIR decides to send it. The hard part is getting MIR to send the number of outputs I want it to send. The "Matrix" tab doesn't allow me to set the number of outputs -- the Matrix tab tells me it's sending two outputs ("OutputL" and "OutputR") and that's the end of it.

Now I've resorted to experimenting with the undocumented "Force output channels" setting, and as a result, MIR no longer opens in my DAW. This is just going downhill, so I'll give up and use a different product for room-simulation.

I am (I think) talking about Output Format. The only Output Format I ever have been able to achieve is basic 2-channel -- Left and Right. I've spent some hours reading docs and trying to get a more complex Output Format, but without success, so I had assumed that feature is available only through VE Pro (which I don't have).

But now, after learning of "Force output channels", I'm hoping it is actually possible for me to get an Output Format more complex than stereo.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

I'm not sure what you mean by "individual microphone capsules".

I'm talking about the things I add with the "ADD CAPSULE" button, and which I delete with the "DELETE CAPSULE" button.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Are we really talking about the Main and Secondary Microphones in MIR, or the so-called MIR Icon that's used to represent a signal source on a stage ...? :-/

Neither. We are talking about the things I add with the "ADD CAPSULE" button, and which I delete with the "DELETE CAPSULE" button.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

MIR Pro's output will always depend on the chosen Output Format. This can be set up in the Output Format Editor window.

On my system, the Output Format Editor window doesn't allow me to surpass a channel-width of 2.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

If you need a 5.1 (or 7.1 or Quadro) output format from MIR Pro,

I shouldn't need a 5.1 (or 7.1 or Quadro) output format from MIR Pro, since I'm producing for stereo, not surround; but now I see I have to trick MIR into thinking I'm producing for 5.1 (or 7.1 or Quadro) if I want more than 2 output channels from MIR.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

In any case - the "force output channels" preference isn't a tool for daily work, but a purely technical option to circumvent restrictions imposed by certain DAWs.

I don't want to use it for daily work. I just want to use it as a technical option to circumvent restrictions imposed by certain DAWs. I'll wait for it to be documented.

Thanks for speaking English. If I had to do this in German, it would not go well.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

... the number of individual channels within an audio stream, i.e. one for Mono, two for Stereo, four for Quadro or Ambisonics, six for 5.1-surround, and so on.

With the "Force output channels" setting, can I get individual microphone capsules onto separate tracks in my DAW (Reaper or Cubase)?

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Seems that this has been never added to the manual. That's just a "technical" Preference for obscure situations where certain DAWs can't determine the channel width of a plug-in by themselves. If you haven't needed it up to now, you won't need it in the future either (most likely). :-)

Thanks. What do you mean by "channel width"?

I possibly have needed this, hence my asking about it. Two needs I have are (1) getting separate dry and wet output from MIR in my DAW, and (2) getting individual microphone-capsules to output to separate tracks in my DAW.

I don't have VE Pro.

For (1), I've not been able to do this with MIR Plug-In, but I have been able to do it by using MIR inside VE Regular.

For (2), I've found no solution. With the "Force output channels" setting, can I finally get individual microphone capsules onto separate tracks in my DAW (Reaper or Cubase)?

I'd never noticed the ""Force output channels" setting in MIR plugin until reading this thread:

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=42930&=#post258031

Has it always been an option, or was it added during an update? More importantly, where can I find documentation about this setting? I have searched the MIR Pro Plug-In manual, Rev 1.4, but all I find is something on page 10, which is either an error in the documentation, or I'm just not understanding what it means. Page 10 says, 

"As you see, the MIR Control UI contains just a subset of the Preferences from standard MIR Pro / VE Pro. Three

additional settings were added, though:"

"1 is for automatically focusing on the MIR Icon on stage when its corresponding plug-in GUI is opened in the host application."

"2 will shut down the Control UI / Main Window when there is no MIR Pro Plug-In in the active project/song/ session of your hosting DAW."

"3 determines the convolution latency of all MIR Pro Plug-Ins."

#3 doesn't seem to have anything to do with "Force output cannels", so is there another place in the documentation explaining "Force output channels"?

bump.

VSL, please fix this panning-bug with a library update? That should be easy, compared to the hard work you do editing the samples so cleanly.

Originally Posted by: musos

My apologies.

I should have said: Many people here (excluding tek0010 and perhaps a few others) are angry, frustrated......

Thanks. If you're any kind of "victim", you're a voluntary victim, since VSL didn't make you buy the products in the first place, and VSL isn't preventing you from selling them. That's all the time I have for voluntary "victims".

Originally Posted by: musos

We're all quite angry, frustrated and emotional about this issue.

I'm not.